I have an invention idea (mother of all ideas) that has to do with coins. Any advice?

commoncents123 · February 24, 2009 11:19PM

I have the mother of all ideas, but it only exists in my head. It's related to coins, too, and the item is quite specific as I can see the intricate details of the item in my head. I'm just not sure how to get it going, I would need one to tweak and troubleshoot, I'm scared someone will steal my idea, etc. How should I start out, do I need to first get a lawyer and patent the very idea before I begin? I certainly don't trust those "submit your invention" companies. Any and all ideas will be appreciated.

EarlyDollars · February 24, 2009 11:21PM

commoncents123 · February 24, 2009 11:22PM

<< InventHelp >>

I certainly don't trust those "submit your invention" companies. ^^^^

EarlyDollars · February 24, 2009 11:24PM

You would probably want to start fabricating a prototype before you start throwing money at patent lawyers. Hard to pitch an idea when it's just in your head?

EarlyDollars · February 24, 2009 11:27PM

I use a scientific/lab notebook to document (with a witness) progress on certain projects to protect my (and the companies) intellectual property.

FilthyBroke · February 24, 2009 11:28PM

Is it the Gyroscopic Coin Slab?

.....because if it is, it's already been considered!

pheh · February 24, 2009 11:30PM

It isn't terribly difficult to file for a patent and the patent office will give a patent for just about anything...

http://www.legalzoom.com/provisional-patents/provisional-patents-overview.html

Also search for prior art to ensure you aren't already duplicating someone elses work...

http://otl.stanford.edu/inventors/resources/pas.html

commoncents123 · February 24, 2009 11:43PM

<< Is it the Gyroscopic Coin Slab?

.....because if it is, it's already been considered!

>>

that would be a negative

RWB · February 24, 2009 11:50PM

Describe your invention in as much detail as possible, and mail the description to yourself, registered, return receipt.

The do a patent search yourself. If that is negative, then go to a patent attorney and get professional help in searching and properly preparing your patent. A poorly written patent application might get accepted but it will also offer little protection for your invention.

While you are preparing the patent application, look ah how your invention might be produced and marketed. You can discuss it with industry representatives under nondisclosure agreements.

kranky · February 24, 2009 11:53PM

<< You can discuss it with industry representatives under nondisclosure agreements. >>

I don't know, I would be leery of this. Companies can be very skilled at copying an idea without crossing the line into actual infringement. They know just how much they need to change it to be in the clear yet still capitalize on the concept.

RWB · February 24, 2009 11:55PM

Obviously, the NDA and what you can discuss shoud be based on what your patent attorney recommends.

COINB0Y · February 25, 2009 12:16AM

First off, don't write about it on the Board.

1.) You need to write it down, all of the features and elements that make it work. Draw it up.

2.) You need to search for prior art at the USPTO

If no prior art:

3.) You need to talk to a Patent Attorney

As one that does it for a living, Inventing can be great business or a real tough business. It is Darwinian.

A US patent will cost you between $6K-$25K before USPTO Action, after issuance there are annuity payments. If filed internationally, expect $150K to $250K. Your idea should have the ability to recover this cost .

Ask yourself this:
How big is the market for the idea?
What is the probable return?
Who (MANUFACTURER) will take your license for the Idea?
Where will it be made? China?

COINB0Y · February 25, 2009 12:20AM

<< You can discuss it with industry representatives under nondisclosure agreements. >>

I would agree, but ONLY after a Provisional application is on file with the USPTO.

foodude · February 25, 2009 12:41AM

There's a reason patent attorneys charge $200-$400 an hour to write and prosecute a patent application.

stevek · February 25, 2009 12:43AM

Plastic dies probably won't work.

BobSav · February 25, 2009 1:05AM

I think the OP is far from a patent.
He say's he has an idea.
Take it from someone who's been there done that and ended up on the short end of the stick.
First PUT IT IN WRITING!!!
They don't have to autocad stuff, sketches, line drawings, anything even if it's crude.
Most importantly write a essay, story whatever explaining your idea and what it does and what makes your idea better than whatever else is out there.

Next take all this "stuff" to a Notary Public along with a witness and have all the documents notarized. This will establish a date of your idea/invention.

This will give you some protection if someone else comes up with the same idea.

The rest is the hard part...

Good luck

Bob

pludie · February 25, 2009 1:11AM

<< Plastic dies probably won't work. >>

They could, with planchets made of cheddar.

jsf · February 25, 2009 1:13AM

"Describe your invention in as much detail as possible, and mail the description to yourself, registered, return receipt."

AND THE REASON IS: IIRC, do not open it after it arrives. If need be, it is to be opened in court to prove your earlier idea than someone else's presentation of such.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 25, 2009 1:15AM

<< Describe your invention in as much detail as possible, and mail the description to yourself, registered, return receipt.

The do a patent search yourself. If that is negative, then go to a patent attorney and get professional help in searching and properly preparing your patent. A poorly written patent application might get accepted but it will also offer little protection for your invention.

While you are preparing the patent application, look ah how your invention might be produced and marketed. You can discuss it with industry representatives under nondisclosure agreements. >>

I've heard of this mailing ( the idea, the work, etc on paper) to one's self for copyright protection (lyrics & music). Was also instructed "NOT TO OPEN" this letter once received.

AU58WALKERS · February 25, 2009 1:20AM

tell us about it
we will tell you if it will sell

fivecents · February 25, 2009 1:21AM

My coin invention is a slab label with a changable grade. That way as the grading standards change so can the grade on your slab.

MrEureka · February 25, 2009 1:27AM

tell us about it
we will tell you if it will sell

Obviously, it would not be wise to publish the details of the invention here.

However, it might make sense to divulge the problem you are trying to solve. That way, you can get some feedback on the demand for your product, and determine if it's worth sinking a small fortune into a patent.

Although you might fear that somebody presented with the problem might come up with the same solution, it's probably irrelevant. I say that because if the solution is that obvious, it's almost certainly not patentable.

Cheddy · February 25, 2009 1:59AM

If I'm not mistaken, a patent is just an extra precaution. It's proof that YOU came up with the idea. It's not necessary since this thread is proof enough that it was your idea first. The only downside to posting is that someone could go patent it before you and you would have to spend your time and money fighting it. You would obviously win but it's just much safer and more convenient to get a patent.

Now tell us the invention I'm on the edge of my seat.

(Did I mention I am also somewhat of a inventor? No numismatic inventions just yet though.)

ambro51 · February 25, 2009 2:02AM

Heres the Acid test for inventions

Does it still seem like a great idea the next day when whatever you had in your system wears off?

PerryHall · February 25, 2009 2:04AM

<< If I'm not mistaken, a patent is just an extra precaution. It's proof that YOU came up with the idea. It's not necessary since this thread is proof enough that it was your idea first. >>

What idea? There are no details!

commoncents123 · February 25, 2009 2:09AM

I think that probably my first challenge will be to construct the said item in order to tweak its curves, corners, and moving parts. Should I make my own blueprints and obtain parts from different sources so as to not give anything away?

keepdachange · February 25, 2009 2:12AM

I would be extremely private about your idea or you will end up like Al Gore! He invented the internet!

commoncents123 · February 25, 2009 2:13AM

Now that I think about it, there is some chance this idea may not be patentable (though it may be because of the very unique design I have in mind). There is maybe a 50/50 chance it's just something that needs to be designed and marketed right. However I need to build a prototype and this will require specially designed parts. The main reason I have so much uncertainly in my posts is that I've never done anything like this before.

yellowkid · February 25, 2009 2:14AM

You will need a patent attorney and some $$$ to do that, no money, no protection!

stckplunge · February 25, 2009 2:25AM

If the idea is good enough and you need AUtoCad drawings and special machined parts I will help you out. I get 10%

JC

messydesk · February 25, 2009 3:08AM

Whether or not it's patentable depends on whether or not the novel idea is obvious to someone skilled in the art of producing something that is similar, and whether or not there's prior art showing what you want to claim.

Let's assume, for the moment, that your idea is patented. What that patent is worth to you depends on the broadness of the claims, the ease of proving someone is infringing upon your claims, the difficulty someone else will have in manufacturing something similar that doesn't infringe on your claims, and the market value of the exclusivity it provides.

I will use, as an example, the patent Larry Briggs holds on his coin holders. This prevents someone from using exactly his design without paying him for the privilege. PCGS could pay him a licensing fee and use his design on their holders. While this would be an improvement, in my opinion, PCGS apparently doesn't see the need and is doing fine without doing so. ANACS holders are sufficiently different from the SEGS design that there is apparently no infringement. The only claim is "ornamental design for a coin case, as described and shown" (see patent D423,747 at the USPTO website). In hindsight, this patent doesn't appear to have been worth much. I'm guessing it was probably also a relatively cheap patent to have granted due to its simplicity.

You'll have to weigh the costs against the expected return.

foodude · February 25, 2009 3:41AM

As a patent attorney and someone that also teaches patent law at a local law school, I am facinated by many of the answers posted in this thread. I now have an appreciation for what tax attorneys or other professional tax preparers must think when they read some of the tax advice sometimes posted here.

BTW, I do not do private work legal work as I have a full time corporate client. Although I know a bit about real estate law, when I buy or sell real estate, I use an attorney experienced in real estate law.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 25, 2009 4:03AM

If you read it here, it could be possible.

zeebob · February 25, 2009 4:43AM

Patents are only as good as the lawyers you can hire to defend them. Patents don't mean jack outside of the US borders.

The vast majority of companies out there don't hold patents on their inventions.

The first dog to the bowl gets to eat first.

An idea for a product isn't an idea for a business. The product will likely be the easy part. A successful business model is where the challenge (and the fun) is.

Kick around your product idea. Flesh it out. Play with it. Document it. Have fun.

But what you will need is a business plan and the money to pull it off. That's where the real fun starts. Bootstrap? VC? Partners? What's the market scope? How much market can you capture at what cost and in what time? Can you model your business plan mathematically?

Good luck. Many succeed, many fail, but they all make for good stories.

tahoe98 · February 25, 2009 7:31AM

.............i sure hope it's not my GLASS slab idea!!

MrEureka · February 25, 2009 8:09AM

If you're thinking of "mother of all multi-holders", I'm afraid you're too late.

COINB0Y · February 25, 2009 8:46AM

However I need to build a prototype and this will require specially designed parts. The main reason I have so much uncertainly in my posts is that I've never done anything like this before.

You do not have to do that.

Some of the suggestions here are just hilarious.

I am an inventor and/or co-inventor of 80+ issued Patents in the USA and around the world.

Save yourself some torture and at the very least spend $30 on Amazon and buy "Patent it Yourself"

COINB0Y · February 25, 2009 8:48AM

<< If you're thinking of "mother of all multi-holders", I'm afraid you're too late. >>

Coin Warmer/Cleaner?

coindeuce · February 25, 2009 12:16PM

<< If you're thinking of "mother of all multi-holders", I'm afraid you're too late.

>>

Actually, Ira found it more comforting to "read" the throne than to read while on the throne.

Loki · February 25, 2009 2:52PM

Looks like Ira is doing a thorough weekly inspection for new "hairlines" .

ArizonaJack · February 25, 2009 2:55PM

It's not a can of " Luster Restorer " is it?

PerryHall · February 25, 2009 7:21PM

I can't wait to see this new invention.

commoncents123 · February 25, 2009 10:43PM

No it's not a luster restorer....I'm virtually certain that this product would yield millions in sales in short order. At this point i'm quite uncertain if it could actually be patented or not; I think it probably could, but, I'm not sure if it'd be worth it because It probably would be mimicked barely within the law. I think I feel safe in giving 1 or 2 hints...at some point or another.

Longacre · February 25, 2009 10:47PM

I like the idea of speaking with a patent lawyer. If you don't want to spend any money right now, there are patent law professors who would probably be willing to speak with you for free and give general guidance (but be warned that sometimes the professors are too theoretical and do not have a grasp of how things work in the real world).

foodude · February 26, 2009 12:42AM

... sometimes the professors are too theoretical and do not have a grasp of how things work in the real world

That can be true

RedTiger · February 26, 2009 2:28AM

<< No it's not a luster restorer....I'm virtually certain that this product would yield millions in sales in short order. At this point i'm quite uncertain if it could actually be patented or not; I think it probably could, but, I'm not sure if it'd be worth it because It probably would be mimicked barely within the law. I think I feel safe in giving 1 or 2 hints...at some point or another. >>

Millions in sales in the first year? I would say you are probably are dreaming, if it only has to do with coins. Coin collectors are slow to try new things, and many are tight with their money. Coin dealers are even slower to try new things, and many are even tighter with their money. The coin market as such, isn't all that big. Do you really think you'll can get a decent percentage of that pie? Again, I think you are dreaming about the demand, if the invention/product only has to do with coins.

Even if you are correct about millions in gross sales, how much will it cost to set up manufacture, distribution, retail markup. What would be the net back to you, the inventor? A business plan might be a place to start, with estimates of the costs, unit sales, price for each unit, etc. You can probably have someone with a business background look at it, without disclosing what the device/invention is to see if it is worth the time and effort to pursue.

Billet7 · February 26, 2009 2:37AM

I have had an idea for a while as well, relating to the coin market, I wonder if it is the same one. Let me know how you proceed, and if it works out for you.

jessewvu · February 26, 2009 7:44AM

i have a auto coin grading and identification program i am developing

LindeDad · February 26, 2009 8:17AM

<< i have a auto coin grading and identification program i am developing >>

Too late and it did not work. Ask the hosts about it.
Well you can try that forum but they don't answer any more.

I have an invention idea (mother of all ideas) that has to do with coins. Any advice?

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