1964-D Washington Quarter- Is this a Type C reverse?- PCGS Grade posted

ECHOES

After reading a thread about the Type C reverse I searched my "junk" silver and found this, is this a Type C reverse?


PCGS grade posted, better than I hoped for as I thought it might grade XF45.

COIN INFORMATION
Cert Verification #: 14275331
PCGS Coin #: 145423
Date, mintmark: 1964-D
Denomination: 25C
Variety: Type C Rev FS-901
Minor Variety:
Mint Error:
Pedigree:
Country: The United States of America
Grade: AU50




Edit to add image, 13/01-20

Boom

Steve, I'm not certain, however it's obvious that the vine is different and is somewhat like a Type B.

Note how the vine touches the left (pointed tip) side of the perch & how sharply struck the tail feathers are!

I don't see a gap but don't know if a C has one between the E & S.

Set it between a Type B and regular circulation strike and note the differences.

It's different, for sure! How about it guys! Whatta you guys think?

ksteelheader

<< <i>Steve, I'm not certain, however it's obvious that the vine is different and is somewhat like a Type B.

Note how the vine touches the left (pointed tip) side of the perch & how sharply struck the tail feathers are!

I don't see a gap but don't know if a C has one between the E & S.

Set it between a Type B and regular circulation strike and note the differences.

It's different, for sure! How about it guys! Whatta you guys think? >>



It has some similarities, but the breast feathers are nonexistant.

Boom

<< It has some similarities, but the breast feathers are nonexistant. >>

True, Ken but the issue isn't Grade - it's about determining Type...

or, that's how I understand the OP's question.

My opinion is - right now I'm not sure BUT- it IS different, for sure.

buc

I would say that it is a Reverse "C" Quarter. The tail feathers are seperate and distinct, the leaf above the A in dollar is strong and touches the A, this is a circulated coin so breast feathers can't be used as a determining factor. It looks like the reverse used on the 65 and later Quarters and dosen't look like the soft / weak design of the 64 and earlier where the tail feathers and the leaf above the A in dollar are hardly visible, just my opinion since I'm in search of one myself.

ksteelheader

<< <i><< It has some similarities, but the breast feathers are nonexistant. >>

True, Ken but the issue isn't Grade - it's about determining Type...

or, that's how I understand the OP's question.

My opinion is - right now I'm not sure BUT- it IS different, for sure. >>




I wasn't referring to grade. Type "C" is supposed to have "sharpness on the breast feathers."

The talons do look correct, though.

cointime

Yes, that is a type-c reverse. Looks to be maybe AU. Nice find

COINB0Y

ECHOES

Thanks to all who replied...
Steve

ProofArtworkonCircs

Looks like a type C to me, but I can't be sure from the your pictures.
Coinboy's coin is definitly a C. Try comparing yours to his photo.
In yours, I think, I see the innermost feather divided in two, relief centerlines in the tailfeathers and leaf by A of DOLLAR sharp.
The relief centerlines are iffy in your picture, perhaps if you tilt the coin they will show up much better.

edited to add:
That strong leaf jutting just above the tip of the rightmost (viewer's right) tailfeather is another positive sign of a C.

ProofArtworkonCircs

Here is another PUP for type C or perhaps it works better for positively identifying a type A.
In the center of the arrows, there is an X shaped ribbon arround the arrows. On types A and B there is an incuse line on the right side. On type C, there is none. Thus it is hard to use to identify a C. Is it missing or the picture itself?

I mention this because of this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250376521575&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

This coin on ebay is not a C because of that incuse line. The doubling may be ejection doubling and the repunched MM may be circulation damage. It is claimed to be 3 different coins in one.

sinin1

I think there are more varieties of the 1964-D than just 2


on the eagles right wing (our left), some coins show 6 feathers - most have 5
- this extra feather is a thin one closer to the feet, also with this is a couple thin ones on higher wing section

the letter A of Dollar, sometimes has a clear leaf and sometimes hardly visible


I have been looking at 64 proofs, 65 SMS, 65 business strike


and feel the guys at Denver where minting clads and silver at same time,
and must have used the wrong master for the reverse


the other option is die struck and die wear is showing me different details confusing the issue for me

RickMilauskas

It's a Type C...usually you can see the stem/vein through the center of the feathers but this is either obscured by toning or wear.

19Lyds

Hmmmm. Why all this talk of arrows and tips and vines and such?

To me, the Type C is easily distinguishable in the leaf just below and to the right of the arrow tips. It is shaped differently than the Type A reverse in that it comes to a distinct point. The shape of the leaf is unchanged according to strike.



The Type A leaf is more round and the tip nearly always fades into the background even on well struck examples.

The OP definitely has a Type C Reverse.

ProofArtworkonCircs

I have taken the sinin1's post and assigned my guess of types to each description - shown within (). I still only come up with 2 types for 64 D. Proofs and Philadelphia circulation strike B's are a 3rd type for 1964 dated, but none of these came from Denver.

<<I think there are more varieties of the 1964-D than just 2


on the eagles right wing (our left), some coins show 6 feathers (C) - most have 5 (A)
- this extra feather is a thin one closer to the feet, also with this is a couple thin ones on higher wing section

the letter A of Dollar, sometimes has a clear leaf (C)and sometimes hardly visible (A)


I have been looking at 64 proofs (B), 65 SMS (C), 65 business strike (C)


and feel the guys at Denver where minting clads and silver at same time, (each mint was supposed to be only doing 1 type at a time) .
and must have used the wrong master for the reverse


the other option is die struck and die wear is showing me different details confusing the issue for me >>


Edited to expand the third sentence.

ProofArtworkonCircs

I can see 4 other C markers in Lee's picture

docg

A definite type "C" 1964d Washington.

19Lyds

<< <i>I can see 4 other C markers in Lee's picture >>



What are they and please be specific.

ProofArtworkonCircs

<<<< I can see 4 other C markers in Lee's picture >>



What are they and please be specific. >>

Sharp leaf at lower right of taifeathers that touches tailfeathers and rises slightly above the bottom of them.

Sharp leaf at A of DOLLAR

No incuse outline on right side of X ribbon band on the arrows. (your picture is detailed enough to show it if it were there).

Leaves, especially those by QUARTER DOLLAR have a more cupped center than type A (sort of subjective, but real)

ECHOES

Thanks to all who provided such great info...
One more question, is this piece worth grading by PCGS?

19Lyds

I would have it graded and attriguted simply because its a Type C reverse. To date, PCGS has only attributed 17 of these compared to 854 Type B's.

Of course, all of this is provided that the coin is gradeable.

ProofArtworkonCircs

While we have some good pictures posted here, I will point out some differences between this 1964 D C and the great bulk of 1965-1967 clad C's. They have nothing to do with any of the Pick-up points mentioned before.

1) On the 1964 D type C, E PLURIBUS UNUM is in wide low relief letters although it looks pretty good when impressed on the soft silver.
On the others, the lettering is narrower and in higher relief. This holds true beyond 1967.

2) The inside edge of the eagles wing to the viewer's left has a distinct edge on the horizontal section that joins the body.
On the bulk of the 1965-1967 coins this edge fades out completely.

dlmtorts

I am no expert on Type C's but I thought I would post some pics that might be helpful

ProofArtworkonCircs

The fake Type C on ebay sold today. Only 1 bidder bit.

ECHOES

sinin1

congrats

ECHOES

GoldenEyeNumismatics

What's it worth?

ECHOES

I have no idea, I collect errors like this simply because I like them...

morgandollar1878

yes I am 99.9% certain that it is.

cointime

Echoes

Looks like I got the grade spot on, congrats!!! I sent in a group of 10 coins for economy grading "rec 04/07/09" and I have a type c mixed in with some type b reverses. I'll get the grades and later send them for VAR review if the grades are good enough I like your coin slabbed reverse out and I was thinking about doing this with mine.

Ken