Help solve the mystery: An old coin envelope came with my recent Heritage purchase...
RYK
Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
Don't tell Longacre, but I purchased a relatively inexpensive, non-gem, non-CAC, base metal coin from Heritage's Long Beach sale.
It was this not so excessively rare, not so excessively lovely Washington Unity States colonial copper piece. What is most interesting about it is that it came with an excessively old envelope. When I saw the envelope, my heart skipped a beat. I was hoping that it would have a stamp with Norweb, Garrett, or Farouk on it. Instead, there is no identifying marks but the following:
"Unity States Wash. Cent 1783 #384 V.G. 1.50" and then on the side, written sideways "$6.00"
All of the above is written in pencil except "#384" and "1.50", which are written in black ink.
Needless to say, most of it is easily recognizable, but offer no clues to the origin of this coin. My guess is that the "#384" is either the auction lot number or the inventory number for a fixed price list. If there are any numismatic sleuths who have the time and resources to solve the mystery of the origin of this envelope, any assistance would be appreciated. At this point, I am spending more time puzzling over the envelope than I am looking at the coin!
It was this not so excessively rare, not so excessively lovely Washington Unity States colonial copper piece. What is most interesting about it is that it came with an excessively old envelope. When I saw the envelope, my heart skipped a beat. I was hoping that it would have a stamp with Norweb, Garrett, or Farouk on it. Instead, there is no identifying marks but the following:
"Unity States Wash. Cent 1783 #384 V.G. 1.50" and then on the side, written sideways "$6.00"
All of the above is written in pencil except "#384" and "1.50", which are written in black ink.
Needless to say, most of it is easily recognizable, but offer no clues to the origin of this coin. My guess is that the "#384" is either the auction lot number or the inventory number for a fixed price list. If there are any numismatic sleuths who have the time and resources to solve the mystery of the origin of this envelope, any assistance would be appreciated. At this point, I am spending more time puzzling over the envelope than I am looking at the coin!
0
Comments
Edited to add: I might get excited if I knew that the ink appeared to have come from a fountain pen, as if an indication that it was marked before the invention of the ball point...
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
<< <i>Why not just contact Heritage to explain your mission? Perhaps they submitted the coin on behalf of the consignor, who could unlock the mystery quickly and simply. Offer to write an anonymous letter requesting the information, and ask that Heritage forward it to the previous owner. If Heritage is willing, and the previous owner is cooperative, you may get an answer. >>
Contacting Heritage is likely to be quicker than the alternative of poring through every auction catalog and fixed price list ever printed!
<< <i>When I consigned a coin with a past auction envelope from 1975, they lost it. >>
I have one word for you: Rubberband.
I agree.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why not just contact Heritage to explain your mission? Perhaps they submitted the coin on behalf of the consignor, who could unlock the mystery quickly and simply. Offer to write an anonymous letter requesting the information, and ask that Heritage forward it to the previous owner. If Heritage is willing, and the previous owner is cooperative, you may get an answer. >>
Contacting Heritage is likely to be quicker than the alternative of poring through every auction catalog and fixed price list ever printed! >>
I thought you would have the answer by now.
<< <i>post a pic of the envelope!
I agree. >>
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
<< <i>obviously, all radiologists were not created equally when it comes to photography
If you ask for a photo of the reverse of the envelope, I am going to slug you.
www.brunkauctions.com
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>That envelope is of an unusual size/shape. The only other place I've seen them was at Christie's when they sold some coins from the B.G. Johnson estate. >>
Wow. This guy is good.
<< <i>Short of asking Heritage, I think there is no hope of identifying that envelope, or even determining if it was from an auction house, brick and mortar coin shop or concocted by some recent owner to make it look old and charming. >>
All it would take is someone with an extensive knowledge of colonial coins and a vast auction catalog collection. Do we know anyone who fits this description?
Actually, by the price on the envelope, we might be able to pinpoint a date range. I doubt that the coin was auctioned in the last ten years or so and probably not even in the last twenty years. The envelope itself is probably at least 30 years old. Then again, 291fifth may tell us that the price on the envelope is from the future (2012) and that the envelope was transported through a time warp.
I'll call Heritage first thing in the morning. I'll tell Greg R that I am a friend of Longacre in order to make sure I get the level of attention that this urgent matter deserves.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>That envelope is of an unusual size/shape. The only other place I've seen them was at Christie's when they sold some coins from the B.G. Johnson estate. >>
Wow! Are you serious? Was he not the St. Louis-based dealer of the middle of the 20th century?
<< <i>I'll call Heritage first thing in the morning. I'll tell Greg R that I am a friend of Longacre in order to make sure I get the level of attention that this urgent matter deserves.
Conversely, they may declare you persona non grata and revoke all your bidding privileges forever, or worse, mess up your bids so that you receive lots of the latest Mint products
<< <i>
<< <i>That envelope is of an unusual size/shape. The only other place I've seen them was at Christie's when they sold some coins from the B.G. Johnson estate. >>
Wow! Are you serious? Was he not the St. Louis-based dealer of the middle of the 20th century? >>
St. Louis Stamp & Coin Co
Wow! Are you serious? Was he not the St. Louis-based dealer of the middle of the 20th century?
Of course I'm serious. Have you ever known me to joke around?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i><< That envelope is of an unusual size/shape. The only other place I've seen them was at Christie's when they sold some coins from the B.G. Johnson estate. >>
Wow! Are you serious? Was he not the St. Louis-based dealer of the middle of the 20th century?
Of course I'm serious. Have you ever known me to joke around? >>
<< <i>obviously, all radiologists were not created equally when it comes to photography
I got a good chuckle from that one.
<< <i>My 1947 Redbook has it at Good : $1.00, Fine: $2.50 >>
Clue #2!
I like a good detective story.
Where's the jaw-drop icon??
<< <i><< That envelope is of an unusual size/shape. The only other place I've seen them was at Christie's when they sold some coins from the B.G. Johnson estate. >>
Wow! Are you serious? Was he not the St. Louis-based dealer of the middle of the 20th century?
Of course I'm serious. Have you ever known me to joke around? >>
Shirley you jest.........
<< <i>
<< <i>obviously, all radiologists were not created equally when it comes to photography
If you ask for a photo of the reverse of the envelope, I am going to slug you.
Let's see the edge of the envelope.....
All seriousness aside, let's consider another aspect of this envelope. It calls the coin a "VG." It is now slabbed as "EF40."
Not even an 1804 dollar has shown this much gradeflation, though a few have tried.
The original grade, as well as the price, certainly date the envelope back quite a ways.
TD
To me, the coin has a level of detail more commensurate with an EF grade than a VG grade. If this were a large cent, most people would be comfortable with a details grade in the mid-grade circulated range. I do not care to quibble about the grade.
Not even an 1804 dollar has shown this much gradeflation, though a few have tried.
While maybe not many coins have inflated as many grading points, but many coins have inflated through significantly more price points than this one has--if that makes any sense.
<< <i>
<< <i>obviously, all radiologists were not created equally when it comes to photography
I got a good chuckle from that one.
Me, too.
Do drop my name to Greggy, and ask for the typical Longacre service.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>obviously, all radiologists were not created equally when it comes to photography
I got a good chuckle from that one.
Me, too.
>>
No wonder he's always in a good mood. The man loves his work.
Great thread. --Jerry
<< <i>That envelope is of an unusual size/shape. The only other place I've seen them was at Christie's when they sold some coins from the B.G. Johnson estate. >>
There were some B.G. Johnson colonials in a 1997 Spink America sale, so I thought that might be a possibility. Alas there was no Unity States in that offering.
<< <i>Maybe a real longshot, but try e-mailing a picture to Ray Williams of C4 ( Colonial Coin Collectors Club), post an e-Sylum inquiry and picture....... maybe even EACs Region 8. Each is frequented by those collectors and enthusiasts who may recognize the the type of envelope, style, and notations, and be able to provide some information as to a source. >>
That is an excellent suggestion.