If you knew a dealer was in trouble financially,

RYK

and they had a coin that you wanted to purchase, would you buy it?

Why or why not? How would you structure the transaction?

Unknown

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curly

<< <i>and they had a coin that you wanted to purchase, would you buy it?

Why or why not? How would you structure the transaction? >>



Another question on dealer finances. Brother, you know sumthin' we don't?

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>and they had a coin that you wanted to purchase, would you buy it?

Why or why not? How would you structure the transaction? >>



If he is known to be in trouble coin ships first or no deal.

RYK

<< <i>

<< <i>and they had a coin that you wanted to purchase, would you buy it?

Why or why not? How would you structure the transaction? >>



Another question on dealer finances. Brother, you know sumthin' we don't? >>



Yes and no, but, that aside, one topic tends to lead to other related tangents.

habaraca

I would try to take advantage of them like they take advantage of the public.
I would use their trouble to get a better price.

NAW just kidding......I would try to pay cash and help the dealer out.

must be a reason he is over his head....Like the public that HAS to sell to raise
funds sometimes a dealer will be in that position also.

Knowing he sells to other dealers at wholesale levels.......

I would try to do a larger deal and get some discounts over full retail.

Unknown

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BBQnBLUES

I'd "Make him an offer, he couldn't refuse".

Helps to have the "Theme from The God Father" playing in the background

tahoe98

...........i might. but i'd be a little nervous on buying anything raw.

IrishMike

It doesn't even amaze me any longer that folks choose to ignore what's right in front of their faces if they want something bad enough. They will go ahead and buy it hoping that the deal will go through ok even with others telling them to avoid the dealer. Happens all the time in the banking business, I remember someone who wanted to be a client and whose major customer was a large company notorious for taking 6 months to pay winter invoices. As soon as I saw that they were the clients major account receiveable we passed on the deal. The client even knowing that sold to them and of course a year later his company ran out of cash waiting. As a side note the major client whose stock was once selling in the 60's is down to a buck something and has been forced to sell out.

Longacre

I'm waiting for RYK to get a PM from an influential person, suggesting that he refrain from talking about dealers' finances, like Longacre received when I posted about dealers holding checks for other dealers a few months ago.


In response, assuming that the coin was priced fairly, I would purchase it. I would not lowball the dealer.

truthteller

The coin industry is very small in the world of finances, so a dealer who is in trouble is very well known as soon as the first check bounces, or the deal goes bad. I have dealt with some smaller dealers who have fallen on hard times and they usually bounce back. I have taken checks with a "hold for two weeks" knowing that they will be good. However, I have known several larger dealers with whom "everybody" had larger financial dealings, only to go belly up and leaving many dealers holding worthless invoices. Those dealers are not in my circle of dealing and leave it up to others to make lots of money or lose lots of money.


TRUTH

GoldenEyeNumismatics

If it's a coin I want then sure.

JCMhouston

I would still buy, I might be a little more careful about how I structured the purchase and hand over of the coin though. I would think the dealers that shifted to generic gold in time would be making out though, I mean the big spiel now is that the published gold price is only for paper, real gold costs more, and people seem to be lining up to pay it.

tightbudget

Yes. I'd buy it as I do any coin. Fork over cash and get coin.

PerryHall

Sure. As long as I could pay with a credit card.

DoubleEagle59

Sure I would buy it and at the lowest price I could get it for.

Why not? It's business.

TahoeDale

No one but Joe has hit on the real problem.

There are many dealers who work on memo/consignment from dealers and collectors, and who do not hold title to the coin.

I have been contacted in the past, more than one time, to try and assist a dealer who has lost coins to unsavory and financially distressed dealers.

The coins in the hands of a troubled dealer are not for me. Even if I receive the coin, assure myself that is genuine/all there, I do not want the hassle of being involved in a 3 way argument about the ownership, where I have paid the 2nd dealer, and he has not forwarded the agreed amount to the first(owner).

So, RYK, my answer would be NO. I deal with only those I respect and trust.

slumlord98

The question of title can be complex and counterintuitive from what I've been told. Last year I sold some medals which ended up getting placed with a well respected dealer here, who promptly resold them, but payment wasn't immediately forthcoming from my intermediary. I consulted a well known national dealer who used to teach Uniform Commercial Code at UCSC and learned enough to realize that ordering a coin from someone and sending a check wasn't necessarily as clear cut as I'd assumed. Credit card is always preferred and offers another layer of safety.

CB2597

Buy the coin

Smed624

Is the dealer in question one that you have a relationship with and have bought from in the past??? (with success)
If so I would consider it and maybe buy a few other things if the pricing was right...

Julian

<< <i>No one but Joe has hit on the real problem.

There are many dealers who work on memo/consignment from dealers and collectors, and who do not hold title to the coin.

I have been contacted in the past, more than one time, to try and assist a dealer who has lost coins to unsavory and financially distressed dealers.

The coins in the hands of a troubled dealer are not for me. Even if I receive the coin, assure myself that is genuine/all there, I do not want the hassle of being involved in a 3 way argument about the ownership, where I have paid the 2nd dealer, and he has not forwarded the agreed amount to the first(owner).

So, RYK, my answer would be NO. I deal with only those I respect and trust. >>



If you bought the coin, Dale, wouldn't you be a holder in due course and not be involved in any dispute between a consignor and consignee?

notwilight

<< <i>How would you know that the seller had clear title? There was a recent thread about dealers trading inventory with other dealers. If a buyer for a coin company with financial issues was offering to trade inventory with you, how could you know that the coins were his to trade? >>



Title insurance?

Unknown

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fishcooker

If I had private information about the financial trouble, it seems to reason I'd also know why it exists. The "why" would have a large bearing on my actions.

I once worked with a couple of 30-something contract professionals (married to each other) who finished a 12 month project and bought each other Rolex's and went to Hawaii. But 6 months later, they were singing a sad song because the IRS wanted $60k in unpaid taxes (Taxes? What are taxes?). I wouldn't have sympathy for a coin dealer who committed tax fraud.

adamlaneus

Haiku:

Sing a song about
R. Y. K. and Dealer A
Continuous joy

IGWT

It's simple:

§ 2-403. Power to Transfer; Good Faith Purchase of Goods; "Entrusting".

(1) A purchaser of goods acquires all title which his transferor had or had power to transfer except that a purchaser of a limited interest acquires rights only to the extent of the interest purchased. A person with voidable title has power to transfer a good title to a good faith purchaser for value. When goods have been delivered under a transaction of purchase the purchaser has such power even though

(a) the transferor was deceived as to the identity of the purchaser, or

(b) the delivery was in exchange for a check which is later dishonored, or

(c) it was agreed that the transaction was to be a "cash sale", or

(d) the delivery was procured through fraud punishable as larcenous under the criminal law.

(2) Any entrusting of possession of goods to a merchant who deals in goods of that kind gives him power to transfer all rights of the entruster to a buyer in ordinary course of business.

(3) "Entrusting" includes any delivery and any acquiescence in retention of possession regardless of any condition expressed between the parties to the delivery or acquiescence and regardless of whether the procurement of the entrusting or the possessor's disposition of the goods have been such as to be larcenous under the criminal law.

[Note: If a state adopts the repealer of Article 6-Bulk Transfers (Alternative A), subsec. (4) should read as follows:]

(4) The rights of other purchasers of goods and of lien creditors are governed by the Articles on Secured Transactions (Article 9) and Documents of Title (Article 7).

[Note: If a state adopts Revised Article 6-Bulk Sales (Alternative , subsec. (4) should read as follows:]

(4) The rights of other purchasers of goods and of lien creditors are governed by the Articles on Secured Transactions (Article 9), Bulk Sales (Article 6) and Documents of Title (Article 7).

LincolnCentMan

I've helped a dealer out buy buying from them where the modivation was not that I get specific coins, but that it help the dealer out financially.

-David

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>How would you know that the seller had clear title? There was a recent thread about dealers trading inventory with other dealers. If a buyer for a coin company with financial issues was offering to trade inventory with you, how could you know that the coins were his to trade? >>



How do you know that anyone selling at a show [dealers/collectors alike] has clear title to a coin/s they are offering for sale? If you pay with cash, it would/could be pretty tough to prove that you still have the coin even if the dealer you got it from knew you.

coinkat

Why not? If you get the coin at the time you pay him

FullStrike

Just got back from my local Sam's Club. I got several cases of Vienna Sausages and Bush's Baked Beans. When the time comes, I'll be open to tradin food for Coins.



Can't eat Coins.

MikeInFL

<< <i>and they had a coin that you wanted to purchase, would you buy it?

Why or why not? How would you structure the transaction? >>



Yes, I would.

However, I would likely be a bit more careful because of a loss of the ability to sell it back for a preferred rate.

BlindedByEgo

There is a company majority owned by Stanford Financial with whom I would have great reservations entrusting money for now, at least until the dust settles and charges are filed (if any) for the allegations of wrongdoing by the SEC.

Regardless, armed with the knowledge of which you ask, I would be very, very careful.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Buy the coin >>



Buy the coin, not the problems.

PerryHall

<< <i>

<< <i>Buy the coin >>



Buy the coin, not the problems. >>



What if he declares bankruptcy between the time you pay him and the time he would have shipped the coin? What if he just skips town?

CertifiedGoldCoins

IGWT: § 2-403. Power to Transfer; Good Faith Purchase of Goods; "Entrusting".

OK, I read that. Twice.

That's in a foreign language, but I think it can be translated into Latin: caveat emptor.

So, if I "knew a dealer was in trouble financially, and they had a coin that (I) you wanted to purchase, would (I) buy it?"

NO.

PerryHall

I would think a face to face transaction would be safe. Just make sure you get the coin at the time you pay him.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>I would think a face to face transaction would be safe. Just make sure you get the coin at the time you pay him. >>



Yep, any other way and I'd want the coin first or NO SALE.