In the case of 1805/4 with the recut stars, the submitter was not an innocent victim and had no right to compensation. As CCU said, I bet it doesn't happen again.
three of some of the best eyes in the business saw this coin at PCGS (graders and finalizer), which was submitted under a higher pricing tier, and none of them "noticed" the tooling.
this leads to two possibilities:
1. they need these types of coins in their population reports to show some type of superiority, and silently net grade damaged coins 2. sheer incompetence
neither possibility speaks well about the professional coin grading business
Someone decided to crack this coin out of another TPG problem holder (NCS), submitted it to PCGS and now sits in a problem free graded PCGS holder ??? Someone got lucky here...
Has the coin sold as a PCGS graded coin yet? If not, why would PCGS have to fork the bill. I bet they're on the phone with Heritage as we post but I see the coin is still posted there.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
<< <i>If they can prove that the person submitting the coin to PCGS knew about the problem, they may have recourse against that person. >>
That's what happened on the 1805/4 with 'HL' cut into it. >>
Really? >>
So what if they knew about the problem. That's what the graders are paid to do is grade coins and catch problems. What if I submitt a coin that has had a light cleaning and it ends up in a problem free holder. Should PCGS be able to come after me, because I knew it had a light cleaning? Coins get bagged all the time and resubmitted, the owner knew it was bagged for a problem, should they go after the owner if on the third try it ends up in a problem free holder?
JJ
Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
Agreed, No one made PCGS put it in a problem free holder. If someone is willing to pay the fees they may submit any coin any number of times they would like. They are simply asking for a 2nd, third, fourth ect. opinion. It is on the other hand different if the person is the one engraving the stars, which makes them legally complicit in fraud.
No word from PCGS as to what they intend to do? >>
Silence would be the appropriate response.
The issue is between the holder of the coin and PCGS. No one, to my knowledge, has been forced to buy the coin. >>
For a company that has been floundering financially these last few months, you'd think a good PR move would be to address that they are on the case and to see it removed from Heritage.
It is after all, a coin that has been post-mint defaced and worth a lot of money.
Actually metal would also work if it was in the form of a silver cross.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
should the person who writes the auction description be smart, honest, and good looking enough to mention this tooling on the coin? Or do they simply take a pass also?
<< <i>This item is now scheduled to be auctioned at the Heritage Summer FUN . I guess PCGS decided not to buy it back? >>
Not necessarily. Maybe PCGS did buy it back and now the coin is being auctioned. If PCGS buys back a coin, I'm sure they have several alternatives on what to do with it. I doubt they would melt this coin!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>This item is now scheduled to be auctioned at the Heritage Summer FUN . I guess PCGS decided not to buy it back? >>
Not necessarily. Maybe PCGS did buy it back and now the coin is being auctioned. If PCGS buys back a coin, I'm sure they have several alternatives on what to do with it. I doubt they would melt this coin! >>
why would they buy it back only to sell it in the same slab?
that makes absolutely no sense. a genuine slab sure. that way they can recoup some money and save face.
<< <i>This item is now scheduled to be auctioned at the Heritage Summer FUN . I guess PCGS decided not to buy it back? >>
Not necessarily. Maybe PCGS did buy it back and now the coin is being auctioned. If PCGS buys back a coin, I'm sure they have several alternatives on what to do with it. I doubt they would melt this coin! >>
so buying it back would mean putting a known problem coin back on the market for sale, to regain the money you paid for it? If so, a game of "find a bigger and more ignorant" sucker to pawn your junk off on" is no way to run a business with a guarantee in place.
i'd bet they turned a blind eye to it, and Heritage is just wanting to make a buck by passing it on.
<< <i>Darn - if only there were some company taking a second look at all these slabbed coins and separating the wheat from the chaffe.
Fantastic idea. Now let's see, such a company could charge fees for taking the second look, and even charge as much or more per coin that the TPG -- and yet the company could still shift the blame..er..uh..financial liability for any mistakes (even the ones the company missed itself) onto the original TPG. Hey, they could even say it's for the sole benefit of collectors, and not for the money, because they would give second opinions for free to collectors who trek themselves and shlep their coins to the one remote location each year that's the most convenient for the company. Cool! Financial rewards with minimal liability! >>
At the risk of sounding snide, too bad just about your entire post is factually incorrect.
CAC doesn't change anywhere near what the TPGs do. They don't shift blame for mistakes, and unlike the TPGs, they actually publish their bids. Nowhere have they said the sole benefactor is collectors. Lastly, they have offered free stickers at more than one location.
But this isn't about CAC, this is about the TPGs missing/net grading an obviously-tooled coin. To wit, have you seen any coins like this with a CAC sticker?
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
Comments
three of some of the best eyes in the business saw this coin at PCGS (graders and finalizer), which was submitted under a higher pricing tier, and none of them "noticed" the tooling.
this leads to two possibilities:
1. they need these types of coins in their population reports to show some type of superiority, and silently net grade damaged coins
2. sheer incompetence
neither possibility speaks well about the professional coin grading business
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If they can prove that the person submitting the coin to PCGS knew about the problem, they may have recourse against that person. >>
That's what happened on the 1805/4 with 'HL' cut into it. >>
Really? >>
So what if they knew about the problem. That's what the graders are paid to do is grade coins and catch problems. What if I submitt a coin that has had a light cleaning and it ends up in a problem free holder. Should PCGS be able to come after me, because I knew it had a light cleaning? Coins get bagged all the time and resubmitted, the owner knew it was bagged for a problem, should they go after the owner if on the third try it ends up in a problem free holder?
JJ
Cert Verification #: 06872907
PCGS Coin #: 6058
Date, mintmark: 1796
Denomination: 50C
Variety: 16 Stars
Minor Variety:
Mint Error:
Pedigree:
Country: The United States of America
Grade: F15
Mintage: 934
PCGS Price GuideSM Value: $74,500
The silence is deafening on this one
No word from PCGS as to what they intend to do?
<< <i>The silence is deafening on this one
No word from PCGS as to what they intend to do? >>
Silence would be the appropriate response.
The issue is between the holder of the coin and PCGS. No one, to my knowledge, has been forced to buy the coin.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>
<< <i>The silence is deafening on this one
No word from PCGS as to what they intend to do? >>
Silence would be the appropriate response.
The issue is between the holder of the coin and PCGS. No one, to my knowledge, has been forced to buy the coin. >>
For a company that has been floundering financially these last few months, you'd think a good PR move would be to address that they are on the case and to see it removed from Heritage.
It is after all, a coin that has been post-mint defaced and worth a lot of money.
<< <i>That coin is like a vampire. To kill it,
one must drive a metal spike thru it. >>
Actually, that would be a wooden stake...
<< <i>
<< <i>That coin is like a vampire. To kill it,
one must drive a metal spike thru it. >>
Actually, that would be a wooden stake...
Actually metal would also work if it was in the form of a silver cross.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>This item is now scheduled to be auctioned at the Heritage Summer FUN . I guess PCGS decided not to buy it back? >>
Figures. so much for the buy back guarantee on crap like this.
honest, and good looking enough to mention this tooling on the
coin? Or do they simply take a pass also?
<< <i>This item is now scheduled to be auctioned at the Heritage Summer FUN . I guess PCGS decided not to buy it back? >>
Not necessarily. Maybe PCGS did buy it back and now the coin is being auctioned. If PCGS buys back a coin, I'm sure they have several alternatives on what to do with it. I doubt they would melt this coin!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>
<< <i>This item is now scheduled to be auctioned at the Heritage Summer FUN . I guess PCGS decided not to buy it back? >>
Not necessarily. Maybe PCGS did buy it back and now the coin is being auctioned. If PCGS buys back a coin, I'm sure they have several alternatives on what to do with it. I doubt they would melt this coin! >>
why would they buy it back only to sell it in the same slab?
that makes absolutely no sense. a genuine slab sure. that way they
can recoup some money and save face.
<< <i>
<< <i>This item is now scheduled to be auctioned at the Heritage Summer FUN . I guess PCGS decided not to buy it back? >>
Not necessarily. Maybe PCGS did buy it back and now the coin is being auctioned. If PCGS buys back a coin, I'm sure they have several alternatives on what to do with it. I doubt they would melt this coin! >>
so buying it back would mean putting a known problem coin back on the market for sale, to regain the money you paid for it? If so, a game of "find a bigger and more ignorant" sucker to pawn your junk off on" is no way to run a business with a guarantee in place.
i'd bet they turned a blind eye to it, and Heritage is just wanting to make a buck by passing it on.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
the silence is still deafening..........
<< <i>Except for expertly reengraved stars, the detail on the remaining design elements appears to be original. >>
At least Heritage put it in their description.
-Paul
<< <i>Darn - if only there were some company taking a second look at all these slabbed coins and separating the wheat from the chaffe.
Fantastic idea. Now let's see, such a company could charge fees for taking the second look, and even charge as much or more per coin that the TPG -- and yet the company could still shift the blame..er..uh..financial liability for any mistakes (even the ones the company missed itself) onto the original TPG. Hey, they could even say it's for the sole benefit of collectors, and not for the money, because they would give second opinions for free to collectors who trek themselves and shlep their coins to the one remote location each year that's the most convenient for the company. Cool! Financial rewards with minimal liability!
At the risk of sounding snide, too bad just about your entire post is factually incorrect.
CAC doesn't change anywhere near what the TPGs do.
They don't shift blame for mistakes, and unlike the TPGs, they actually publish their bids.
Nowhere have they said the sole benefactor is collectors.
Lastly, they have offered free stickers at more than one location.
But this isn't about CAC, this is about the TPGs missing/net grading an obviously-tooled coin. To wit, have you seen any coins like this with a CAC sticker?