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Bud Selig thinking or reinstating Aaron as HR king
MCMLVTopps
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in Sports Talk
Just heard on the news that Bud Selig is digusted with all the steroid issues and is contemplating making Hank Aaron's HR record the official HR record and bumping Bonds.
Anyone have a link or have any additional info?
Anyone have a link or have any additional info?
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i hadnt heard that one yet
im in for 5 bucks-operry is too
Bud may be partially responsible for the increasing "cloudy" picture for recent stats and records.
He cant change what has already happened, he cant change a poor call by an ump in the past, he cant remove Canseco and Arod from the list of 40-40 guys, he cant remove any questionable choices from the HOF, he cant decide for the official MLB stats, which records are tainted and which are not, he cant know for sure who took what drugs at what time.
What he can do is strongly suggest mandatory random testing for all MLB players, and try to make the player's union realize the situation without full testing is harnful to the game. He needs some guts to do so, merely talking about Bonds, who is not technically guilty as yet, does nothing but increase bad publicity for baseball.
Please resign from your position as commish and admit that you ignored this problem for 20 years because you thought it was "benefitting" the game of baseball.
Sincerely,
Bart Giamatti's ghost
Just my opinion but that is the only way to make it right.
And I just heard that Bud Selig is thinking about refunding all the money spent on tickets for the games that Bonds has played in since 1986 ...
<< <i>And I just heard that Bud Selig is thinking about refunding all the money spent on tickets for the games that Bonds has played in since 1986 ... >>
That would be sweet!! Saw Bonds 3 times in Houston. Bagwell was still playing. Saw Arod about 50 times in Texas not to mention Pudge Rodriguez, Juan Gone and Palmeiro. Damn, I may be able to retire next month.
I think you need a course in logic. Removing a batter's records (statistics) necessarily means removing many pitchers' records (statistics). Removing batting and pitching records then implies changing teams' records, etc., etc, etc.
Records are what they are, period.
Taken from Here
I find it amusing that Selig is now starting to act tough on the whole PED issue. For years, he and others would turn a blind eye to make a few bucks and now he starts spoutin' this kind of crap.
Please
Hoarding silver and collecting history
Oh wait, Selig's already said that about ARod. Bud needs to look in the mirror and address those same words to himself!!! Then, get on the phone and resign and take his $18,000,000.00+ salary with him! A. Bartlett is turning over in his grave!!!
He's made a quick about face from his comments yesterday when he stated he may suspend ARod and also amend the record books. I guess someone advised him that he really can't do either one.
Heck, he couldn't even manage to get an All-Star game untied.
<< <i>the folks who run the Olympics do it all the time. YOu get caught cheating YOU lose your medals and your records. Grow some balls Selig and erase bonds from the game. Same thing with Afraud. and all the rest. >>
The difference is that the Olympics has an equal playing field as ALL athletes are subjected to the SAME tests.
MLB's tests are random and the results that have been leaked and the players that are being discussed committed their transgressions BEFORE such substances were banned by MLB. You can't change the rules and apply them AFTER the fact just as you can't punish the users AFTER the fact.
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Very true, and in addition, the stats of the pitchers, for example, who hurled vs a proven drug user, are affected.
If Bonds, for example has his records removed, then all pitchers, who are presumably drug -free, who faced him , should have their marks changed as well, then perhaps the defender who made an error on an unatural ball hit by a druggie, and so forth.
The record books are recordings of events, the compliations of them are interwoven , batter, pitcher, and defender, to try and "change" what has actually happened is really unworkable.
<< <i>FanOf390 I am talking about records like, most HRs in a season or most HRs in a career. You don't expunge them from the record books but you just state that X amount of HRs were done in seasons the player was known to have used PEDs so he doesn't own any records set in those years. Bonds HRs will stand past 1998 but they won't count towards him setting the all time HR record. Same thing for A-rod, if he passes Aaron he won't be able to use his Texas years to break it. If you remove those also from consideration of HOF and other awards I think it is a start. >>
That sounds too complicated, like you said about olympic athletes getting stripped of medals I think the only real way to clean up the record books is to not count anyones career stats who used the drugs. Erase everyone's from Luis Gonzalez career stats right on through Bonds ect.. also Clemens and other pitchers as well. That is the only TRUE way to clean the books up IMO.
I cannot stand Boob Selig, but with one stroke of a pen his stock would rise 1000% in my eyes if he did this. But no way he has the cojones to do it.
RB
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>Paul, its radical, but I will support your idea. Erase them from the game. >>
Sure its a huge step but honestly how can you disect it any other way? I cant see you taking away Bonds HR record and allow McGwire to be past Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams ect.
Bottom line you took the drugs then your stats dont count, other than Bonds I dont think for a second these guys give a crap about records anyways, they made millions and that is what the game of Baseball is ALL about with these guys- MONEY MONEY MONEY! There is NO such thing as "Heroes" or "Role Models" with these guys anymore either, that type of thing has long since come and gone.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>If you are going to rewrite history, why just stop at steroids? >>
What other categories do you sugest we go with? Gambling? Chasing Women? Being a jerk? I know these things completely change the outcome of a game so maybe your on to something...
<< <i>
<< <i>If you are going to rewrite history, why just stop at steroids? >>
What other categories do you sugest we go with? Gambling? Chasing Women? Being a jerk? I know these things completely change the outcome of a game so maybe your on to something... >>
I have no question that if you were able to peek into a magic box, you would see that likely 90% of all players in all major sports since their start were using some type of performance enhancing drug. How about cocaine for example? Do you understand the history of cocaine?
I suppose we could harp on the more current players because they had better drugs. They were more cheating I guess.
Even now there is likely a list of 300 drugs they can take, and 30 drugs they can not. Then if your someone like McGwire who took one of the legal drugs, we reserve the right to move the line. We got him on cheating I guess.
If it is all about cheating....then why are there HOF'ers who were known and celebrated as cheaters? Such as Gaylord Perry and Joe Niekro.
So I think we should asterisk them all...but why stop in the modern era? I am sure we could come up with a valid asterisk for everyone.
In the book "The Mick", Mickey Mantle talks about being given a free HR.....let's asterisk him.
Maybe it is not about cheating in general....but the big records.
Maybe, we should asterisk Babe Ruth for all his MANY home runs that would be ground rule doubles now.
We could make the record book look like a science report with reference notes.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If you are going to rewrite history, why just stop at steroids? >>
What other categories do you sugest we go with? Gambling? Chasing Women? Being a jerk? I know these things completely change the outcome of a game so maybe your on to something... >>
I have no question that if you were able to peek into a magic box, you would see that likely 90% of all players in all major sports since their start were using some type of performance enhancing drug. How about cocaine for example? Do you understand the history of cocaine?
I suppose we could harp on the more current players because they had better drugs. They were more cheating I guess.
Even now there is likely a list of 300 drugs they can take, and 30 drugs they can not. Then if your some like McGwire who took one of the legal drugs, we reserve the right to move the line on. We got him on cheating I guess.
If it is all about cheating....then why are there HOF'ers who were known and celebrated as cheaters? Such as Gaylord Perry and Joe Niekro.
So I think we should asterisk them all, but why stop in the modern era? I am sure we could come up with a valid asterisk for everyone.
In the book "The Mick", Mickey Mantle talks about being given a free HR.....let's asterisk him.
Maybe it is not about cheating in general....but the big records.
Maybe, we should asterisk Babe Ruth for all his MANY home runs that would be ground rule doubles now.
We could make the record book look like a science report with reference notes. >>
Ok I see what you mean, all these things you say are true but my question is why did nobody ever gave it much thought or cared for that matter? I am so sick and tired of all this steroid talk that I dont even care to check out all time stats anymore, nobody ever said Joe Niekro should get a bullet in his head like so many idiots say about Bonds! It tells me that most people consider Steroids the ultimate cheating tool and that it is the one thing that has caused so much contreversy that it would be best to erase these guys from the books. Luis Gonzalez and Brady Anderson hitting 50 HR's? Please they could snort all the cocaine they want or drink all the booze they want but would NEVER come close to hitting 40 HR's let alone 50!
Records are a matter of "fact". If you'd like to accompany the Record Book with a second book (to explain the "customs of the day"), then by all means do so. But remember, one book contains "observed facts" -- the other will contain the "he-said-she-said tales".
<< <i>As I said in an earlier post, "records are what they are, period". The same can be said for history. We don't choose which "part of history" and which "records" get documented -- every bit gets documented.
Records are a matter of "fact". If you'd like to accompany the Record Book with a second book (to explain the "customs of the day"), then by all means do so. But remember, one book contains "observed facts" -- the other will contain the "he-said-she-said tales". >>
Very true. I really don't think we should asterisk everything either...I was just joking there. What you do not want to happen is for someone to every few years come along and decide to remove the parts of history they do not like.
Of course, like all facts you have to take them in content to what they represent.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Unfortunately PED's were a big part of baseball for years and they were not illegal until several years ago. So realistically we all just need to face it that Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Arod were still exceptional power hitters. Plus people need to realize that many baseball experts believe more pitchers than hitters took steroids because it greatly helped with their ability to bounce back stronger between starts and gain lots of arm strength.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sick to my stomach every time I read about another player who took PED's, but MLB/Selig and the Players Association let it happen.
I was just reading a study from Vandervilt University that Steroids were around since the 1930's and we now know that NFL football players took them in the 70's....So it could be a matter of time before someone says they took steroids in MLB back then.
Lastly, Seligs comments on Arod are ridiculous....Who is he fooling? He has known for a long time there is a problem and who took steriods. Selig was a team owner and is friends of the owners....He's a freeking puppet for the team owners and knew that the Sosa and McGwire type players were saving baseball and bringing in lots of revenue for the owners and the sport. He's not stupid and knew that MLB would get tarnished down the road.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
There are a lot of "what if's" and "if not's" involved in the accumulation of records. What if Roger Maris had only played 154 games like Babe Ruth? If not for Mickey Mantle getting hurt, he may have eclipsed Roger Maris. What if Sandy Koufax didn't get arthritis? If not for a bad back, Don Mattingly may have had 4-5 more stellar seasons. What is Josh Gibson and Satchel Paige had been able to play in the Majors during their prime? If not for steroids and the McGwire/Sosa home run chase baseball might have fallen by the wayside.
Baseball is a sport based on history. No other sport has seasonal and career accomplishments so woven into the fabric of this great country's history. Numbers like 714, 61, 56, and 42 all have significant meaning. Thresholds like a .400 batting average intrigue even the most casual fan when a player threatens to meet it.
Yes, baseball is revisionist, but it is also guilty of lingering too long and holding too fast to its past. Without the ability to get beyond the negatives of the game (the racial barriers, the DH, steroids), the game will languish.
Steroids are part of this era. It's a given. There is little we can do to change that fact and the usage of PED's by many casts a disparaging cloud of guilt upon those that managed to play the game straight up and clean. We cannot isolate the guilty without having the ALL of the guilty exposed. We cannot change the course or the history of the game because some (or many) may have used PED to gain an advantage. We can only judge the game based upon the rules that were in place at the time.
Cheating has always been a part of the game. Oft times, it was overlooked. Other times punishment was meted out. There are cheaters in the Hall of Fame. Hall of Famers like Gaylord Perry, Don Sutton and Nolan Ryan all doctored the baseball; Perry throughout his career, Sutton for most of it and Ryan towards the zenith of his. Corked bats, Super Balls, spit balls, sandpaper, emery boards, sharpened spikes, greenies, uppers, amphetamines, Cocaine and alcohol have all had there moments in the game. But it has always endured and none of the players involved have been banned from the history of the game...
So, do we add an asterisk to the record books? Do we wipe out the accomplishments of so many gifted athletes? Or do we just remember that this was an era of change?
Remember . . . What if surgeries were better when Mantle got injured? How many pitchers would've had better careers if Tommy John surgery were available in the 1920's or 1930's? If not for the Black Sox scandal, how great might Joe Jackson's career have been? How many changes would such events have made to the record books?
Times change. The "what if's" and "if not's" fade away and the lore of the accomplishments speak for themselves. Let's give baseball a chance. Let's let the history of the game continue to mold its future. Despite everything that has happened in the past few years, I have faith that the game, in its purest sense, is more than strong enough to survive without the need for asterisks and voided accomplishments.
If you believe in the game and love it like I do, I think that you might agree that it deserves our faith and trust because, despite its warts and blemishes, it is still the greatest game on Earth.
I just want to revisit a few things I said earlier-
Doctoring Baseballs, corked bats ect.. have always been around so fair to say it is "part" of the game correct? Then why all the hatred towards these guys that used drugs if it is just a small time frame in the history of the game? I NEVER heard anyone say that Gaylord Perry, Don Sutton and Nolan Ryan should get a bullet in their head like so many said about Bonds. We can bring up Perry, Sutton and Ryan any day of the week and they get respect as players but bring up McGwire, Palmeiro, Sosa and now Arod and people want to crusify them!
I think the Steroid era forever tainted the game because of the #'s these guys put up and the only way to rescue it is to erase the stats, 20, 50 years down the road people are still going to look at the record books and say "Oh that guy cheated" but they will never say that about Ryan, although how many K's would he have had without him messing with the ball?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
When was the last time, if any, you heard anybody cry foul over Yusaku Iriki, Jason Grimsley, Guillermo Mota, Juan Salas, Neifi Pérez, Mike Cameron and J. C. Romero, each of whom have been suspended at least 25 games for testing positive for performance-enhancing drugs? I'm guessing never.
In other words, cheat all you want. But don't break our sacred baseball records. (This is also why there is a double standard for PEDs when it comes to MLB and NFL. The NFL has no sacred records/sacred numbers; well actually the NFL does have a sacred number ... it's called the point spread.)
/s/ JackWESQ
If I was the commissioner of baseball...here's my rule. You get caught juicing the first time...you will be ban for life. no BS around your done.
I was talking to some people I know in my city who are adding special prices to there juice player cards...baseball is really FU now.
Thanks for not correcting or attacking the last sentence of my post.
As much as I love football, baseball is the greatest game on Earth, but I still love football and the New York Football Giants!
Now, let's PLAY BALL!!!
<< <i>Perk:
Thanks for not correcting or attacking the last sentence of my post.
As much as I love football, baseball is the greatest game on Earth, but I still love football and the NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS!
Now, let's PLAY BALL!!! >>
No problem Scott, BUT I do need to correct the last sentence of this post though
Is that a promise?