Acetone question for anyone in Britain

Bjorn · February 7, 2009 9:36PM

Hello all!

I cannot seem to find a good place to get pure acetone here in the United Kingdom (Edinburgh to be precise...). Unfortunately, I have a number of nice coins which were stored by the dealers in PVC flips (some even have the beginnings of green!). Also, would anyone know about getting distilled water? I rinsed some of the coins in a relatively pure acetone (which left a white residue) but the subsequent rinsing in the local tapwater has caused the beginnings of bronze disease!

Regards,
Bjorn

Hussulo · February 7, 2009 10:22PM

Hi Bjorn,

I couldn't find any locally so I purchased some from ebay:
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38.l1313&_nkw=pure+acetone&_sacat=See-All-Categories

Distilled water:
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=m38.l1313&_nkw=Distilled+water&_sacat=See-All-Categories

There may be shops in Edinburgh that sells them but I don't know of any.

Regards,
Hus

ajaan · February 7, 2009 10:30PM

Usually a paint store will have pure acetone. Is there some law in the UK against having this?

1jester · February 7, 2009 10:37PM

I don't see any need for a distilled water rinse after using acetone on the coins, though I've heard some people do this. What I do is have about 4-5 small glass jars filled with 1 inch of acetone in them, and progressively rinse each coin in each bowl, and by the time they get to the last bowl, they are clean. Then drip-dry, which takes about 1-2 seconds. No residue, no problems, clean coins. You can actually tell how many contaminants were on the coins by the amount swimming around in each bowl. The first bowl will be heavily contaminated, even with a layer of junk on the bottom and very hazy green-colored acetone (after doing many coins). The next bowl will have a small amount of discoloration to the acetone, with virtually nothing floating around. The next bowl will be nearly pure, and by the fourth and fifth bowls, the acetone in them will be pure, thus giving you confidence that the coins are also free from PVC contamination. Good luck.

7Jaguars · February 7, 2009 10:54PM

Yes, here in the US I get mine at Home Depot which has paints, home improvement items such as plumbing, electrical, etc.

I simply soak a clean white cotton towel with decent nap and then tamp the surface of the coin - no rubbing. As acetone is a solvent but quite volatile it would seem no need for the distilled water for a followup. However, water plus gentle dish detergent would be another type of solvent solution that can safely remove other types of residues & this treatment would be followed up with pure water cleanse.

coinkat · February 7, 2009 11:22PM

If you have copper/bronze, you may want to give olive oil a chance... just a friendly suggestion

davidrj · February 8, 2009 12:24AM

I buy small (50ml) bottles from the local chemist - they sell it as a nail polish remover. I find this a convenient and relatively safe arrangement for my occasional home use.

Not tried buying acetone in larger quantities, and if I did I would likely have Mr Plod from the anti-terror squad asking questions!

:-)

IloiloKano · February 8, 2009 1:35AM

For copper and bronze, use the acetone, then use the olive oil. There will be no need for distilled water for them. Also, I agree with jester. Any haze you see is likely remaining contaminates that dried on the coin after the pure acetone evaporated. Of course, if it wasn't truly pure acetone, then that is a different story. I don't use distilled water anyway, since I can get 100% isopropyl alcohol, (not 70% or 90%, and not denatured), and that does the trick of removing remaining contaminants nicely. If you can't get 100% alcohol, go to the local liqueur store and buy a bottle of pure grain alcohol.

hic... excuse me.

ASUtodd · February 8, 2009 2:04AM

The distilled water is used to absorb any contaminates left behind as the acetone dries.. Works well to keep the coins from spotting.

MacCrimmon · February 8, 2009 2:29AM

Anyone new to these "restored coins via organics" procedures should also note to only use acetone and its brethren in a well ventilated area, and NEVER, EVER USE IT WHILST SMOKING OR NEAR ANY OTHER IGNITION SOURCE.

If you do so, Mr. Plod may be around picking up the pieces.

P.S. Xylene or Xylol is a bit more aggressive form of acetone. If acetone doesn't strip the pesky contaminant, xylene probably will, else send it to NCS.

wybrit · February 8, 2009 5:55AM

Xylene or Xylol is a bit more aggressive form of acetone. If acetone doesn't strip the pesky contaminant, xylene probably will, else send it to NCS.

Not exactly. Xylene is an aromatic compund derived from benzene, while acetone is an oxygenated aliphatic (ketone). Xylene is a better organic solvent, but you should take even more precautions with it. It will dissolve many types of plastic.

MacCrimmon · February 8, 2009 6:42AM

<< Xylene or Xylol is a bit more aggressive form of acetone. If acetone doesn't strip the pesky contaminant, xylene probably will, else send it to NCS.

Not exactly. Xylene is an aromatic compund derived from benzene, while acetone is an oxygenated aliphatic (ketone). Xylene is a better organic solvent, but you should take even more precautions with it. It will dissolve many types of plastic. >>

.........and your liver as well. Hey, I never knew Wybrit was an organic chemist in his spare time?

Oh yeah, substitute "solvent" for "acetone".

7Jaguars · February 9, 2009 6:33AM

Distilled water may NOT in fact remove any residual contaminants on coin surface as it has different solvent properties than acetone. Rubbing alcohol is another solvent that can be used (sans the rubbing part for these coins of course). It is a sort of "tweener" between water and the acetone. Xylene = no touchie!!!

zeebob · February 9, 2009 7:29AM

There is a company in your area called Findlay Irvine. It is in Penikuk (spelling might not be just correct but it's close within a letter). Bog Road is the name of the road.

I'd call and ask for Colin Irvine or Mike Mustard and explain what you are looking for.

The company uses solvents of all types and I'm sure they'll know where to locate acetone locally.

Bob

pendragon1998 · February 9, 2009 8:57AM

Insert comment about worthless nanny state governments here.

wybrit · February 9, 2009 1:41PM

I agree with the comments about using an IPA (iso-propyl alcohol) or ethanol rinse right after an acetone bath. IPA will prevent most residues that acetone might leave behind and as a bonus has an affinity toward removing particulates. In theory, you would keep the coin wet with acetone and then immediately apply the IPA onto the still-wet surface. Of course, you need a decent setup and good explosion-proof ventilation to do this right.

Personally, I would not use distilled or deionized water - it might do more harm than good.

IloiloKano · February 9, 2009 3:30PM

I use two glass covered butter dishes, one with a small amount of acetone and the other with a liberal amount of isopropyl alcohol (100%). I let the coin soak in the acetone for a few minutes (covered), then I flip it over with a wooden coffee stir stick and let it soak a couple minutes more (again covered). Then I take the coin out with wooden tongs and drop it immediately into the alcohol, stir it around slightly, flip it over, and stir it around again, then I take it out and let it air dry on a cotton ball.

The reason for covering the acetone is because it evaporates very quickly, it is highly volatile, and it is extremely unhealthy to living things. It is only slightly less dangerous to breathe than methyl-ethyl-keytone (MEK), which has been banned in many, if not most, places.

By the way, acetone quickly and completely dissolves plastics, so make sure the butter dish is truly glass, and keep it away from anything that could be damaged by an accidental splash drop.

pendragon1998 · February 10, 2009 11:34AM

Look, acetone is sort of gross - the smell will give you a headache if you're using it in an enclosed area and I wouldn't smoke around it, but it's not nitroglycerin. It's not going to blow up if you shake it funny and it's not deadly unless you're being a true dunce with it. Just use a glass container, metal tongs, and ensure decent ventillation and you're fine. I do not understand the terror some folks seem to be in over the stuff.

And don't buy nail polish remover - it's got other stuff in it besides acetone. Just buy some from a hardware store and be done with it (provided your government hasn't stripped you of that abiliity as well).
Think about it - if acetone was so deadly, would they sell it to women to pour on their fingertips?

zeebob · February 11, 2009 2:08AM

<< ...Think about it - if acetone was so deadly, would they sell it to women to pour on their fingertips? >>

I dunno... Would "they" knowingly sell salmonella tainted peanut products to children to make a few bucks? Would "they" lie about it?

edited for format.

Bjorn · February 11, 2009 2:32AM

Thanks for all the help guys! I am hopping to it... will hopefully have some nice before and after photos to post soon....

Bjorn

element159 · February 11, 2009 4:01AM

Acetone isn't something be terrified about. It is dangerous enough that you need to handle it correctly, but given that, I wouldn't worry too much about it. The stuff is volatile, and very flammable - that is easily the biggest hazard. The volatility also means that you can breathe a lot of the vapor, and it isn't good for you, like any other organic vapor. If you are dealing with the stuff every day, I would worry more about breathing the stuff, but for very occasional use, I would not be terrified. I wear eye protection (safety glasses) when using it as well - acetone damages the eye, I once splashed a drop in my eye, and it was not pleasant. I don't know if that point has been mentioned here.

BTW - I would be surprised if MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) was much worse, healthwise, though I haven't studied it. It is a very similar compound to acetone, acetone could be named 'methyl methyl ketone'. MEK would be less volatile (larger mass molecule), and for that I would actually expect it to be safer to handle - less to breathe, and less fire risk.

I would also try and get high-grade acetone if I was going to clean any coins - *especially* anything close to some of the high-dollar coins that many on this board collect. The hardware stuff is not pure, and usually contains water, as well as who knows what else. I have seen, in the USA, at the drugstore/chemist "100% acetone" for nail polish removal. It might be more pure that the hardware store stuff. Or it might not. Only way to be sure is to get good quality stuff (e.g. from a chemical supplier.) The grade 'AR/ACS' (Analytical reagent/American Chemical Society) would be a good grade of stuff (much better than hardware store stuff), the name might be different in the UK however. 'HPLC' is super-high grade stuff, and would probably be overkill. However, if I was going to try and clean, say $1000 coins, I would get the best stuff that I could.

pendragon1998 · February 11, 2009 5:37AM

<< 

<< ...Think about it - if acetone was so deadly, would they sell it to women to pour on their fingertips? >>

I dunno... Would "they" knowingly sell salmonella tainted peanut products to children to make a few bucks? Would "they" lie about it?

edited for format. >>

That argument doesn't make sense. A completely unrelated industry did something illegal; therefore, acetone is actually deadly and 'they' only allow it to be sold because 'they' are corrupt?

zeebob · February 12, 2009 11:44AM

<< 

<< 

<< ...Think about it - if acetone was so deadly, would they sell it to women to pour on their fingertips? >>

I dunno... Would "they" knowingly sell salmonella tainted peanut products to children to make a few bucks? Would "they" lie about it?

edited for format. >>

That argument doesn't make sense. A completely unrelated industry did something illegal; therefore, acetone is actually deadly and 'they' only allow it to be sold because 'they' are corrupt? >>

My point is only that just because some body of people do something, ie sell acetone to women to pour on their fingertips, doesn't mean the activity is safe. The world is full of instances where said body of people were wrong. Sometimes, as in the cited example, because of corruption. Other times simply because a group of people were wrong. Just because, "they" say it's okay, shouldn't be an excuse to treat a potentially harmful substance without proper precaution.

Hell, I'm sitting here right now with my tray of acetone and stack of coins and a q-tip (wood with no glue). I have eye protection, am in a well ventilated area an minimize my skin's contact time with the acetone.

Acetone is probably no worse than gasoline, but that too is a substance to be treated with respect.

Besides, I like to rip on CEO types that will do real harm to people to turn a profit. It seems liked a good chance to toss in a couple of hyperlinks to current events.

Cheers,

Bob

Edited to add - if you need another more numismatic example of how "they" were wrong, just look at the PVC rich flip industry. Product still made. Product still used. Coins still damaged.

Acetone question for anyone in Britain

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