Weights for the Lincoln Cents!

Spooly

On the Registry Set News Page!



Lincoln Weights

Spooly

Look at the color weights? I thought it was going to be a standard scale?

Brown = 0
Red/ Brown =1
Red = 2

It's done by date and mint mark on color points.

keithdagen

Spooly,

Look at the 43's. Problem there for sure. Who is going to get that +2 bonus for red?

I don't much about the early series, but it looks like offering the bonuses on a case by case basis provides for a more accurate reflection of rarity than the blanket method did.

Keith

dldallen

Keith,

For the 43's, maybe they're talking about the red rusty ones? Those are real hard to find in PCGS slabs

Overall, the weights seem pretty fair. I think some of the 30's might be high compared to the post WWII Phillys but we're only talking ones and twos. The 49-P made the weight but the rest didn't.

Dave

Spooly

The weighting looks good, I like the color weighting too! David Hall really took a hard look at this. I have been cross checking the weighting numbers with the pops(Grades and Color) to see if they match up....... looks good so far!

dpoole

Looks good so far! You guys understand how the coins' grades are factored in, with the rarity/color?

Gerry

Should I assume that the bonus points are added to the grade before multiplying by the weight, not after the grade is multiplied by the weight? For example, suppose I have a 1927 Lincoln in ms67 for which the weight is 3 and the Red Bonus is 2 . Should I assume that the contribution to a total score is (67+2) x 3 = 207 and not (67 x 3) +2 = 203. Anyone disagree?

In either case, these bonus points put a huge premium on having Red rather than Red/Brown or Brown coins in a set.

Spooly

I am not sure how the math is done. (I e-mailed BJ)

I was doing it like this: (67 x 3) +2(color) = 203


Good post Gerry! If done like (67+2) x 3 = 207 you are right.......... the RED premium would even be bigger!

I think the (67 x 3) +2(color) = 203 (would be better) favor Reds, but not over favor them.



P.S. My set is all Red (I guess I just hurt myself)


OPINIONS EVERYONE!!!!!!!

RELLA

I would have weighed the 35P, 36P and all 37-39 PD&S at only one and would have given only one bonus point for red for all 1934 and on but other than that I think they did a fine job.

RELLA

wondercoin

"OPINIONS EVERYONE!!!!!!!"

With all due respect, a silly "baby step". Glad you like it though Spooly - I don't think PCGS could handle another barrage of threats of removing Registry sets or chain letters. Wondercoin.

P.S. IMHO, there is NO ONE QUALIFIED on this board to speak to this weighting except Gerry. I would listen to what Gerry says from here VERY CLOSELY.

Gerry

Thank you, Mitch, but I’m not sure anyone’s opinion will count except for David Hall’s. It is his ballpark and he sets the ground rules.

I personally favor Spooly’s approach – multiply grade by weight and then add bonus points. A good example to think about is the 1926-S, which has a weight of 8, a RB bonus of 1 and a RD bonus of 5. Last I looked a 65RB and 64RD sold for about the same price, and I’d like their contributions to a set rating be about equal.

If you add the bonus points after multiplying by weight, the 65RB gets 521 points and the 64RD gets 517, which I think is a reasonable result. If you added the bonus before multiplying by weight, the 65RB gets 528 and the 64RD gets 552, which imho is too much of a difference. (Somebody please check me out – it’s the end of a long day.)

I’d like to think more about the overall picture, but my initial overall opinion is that the weights highlight the need to split the set into two parts – 1909 through 1933 and 1934 through 1958! Otherwise, the later date coins are just overwhelmed by the earlier dates, and the condition rarity and scarcity of some of the later dates is just not rewarded.

I could give any number of examples, but for instance: why should a 12-S (top pop 31) and a 13-S (top pop 38/1) each get a weight of 6, while coins like a 1946 (top pop 2), 1948 (top pop 2), 1956 (top pop 3) and 1957 (top pop 1) only get weights of 1.

Another point: has anyone thought of what impact these weights are going to have on market prices? Are buyers and sellers going to look at weights as an important criterion in pricing? This is worrisome.

Spooly

Gerry I think the Registry has been driving prices for along time now. The new weighting will have a impact on prices on case by case basis. You can really combine grade, color and weighting to Max your points. You have more options, 65RB vs 64RED ect. You might want to buy MS-65 to MS-66 on common coins and spend the extra to get Key (weight) coins is RED or higher grade. The rules seem fair. This should be fun! You have a great point about the 1909 to 1933 and the 1934 to 1958. Two sets would be nice. But I still think it's ok to have one set. BJ should clear up the math issue Monday.

Spooly

Spooly,

The bonus gets added to the grade and then it is multiplied by the weight.

Obviously, there are no bonus points for the 1943s. I'll update the news
page today.

BJ

sonofagunk

What about my 1943 COPPER cent (in my little world it is a ms67RD good for 69 points). It is not a variety so I can register it in my regular set.

Although I do not agree with all of the weights, I think that they put some effort into it and there is nothing that I strongly disagree with. Good job guys.

keithdagen

For all the effort that was put into the Wheats, absolutely no effort was made on the Memorials. Every coins gets a weight of one. Even copping out, all of the bronze should have got a two and the zincs a one, instead of all coins being treated equally.

Keith

dldallen

Looks like they're also dropping the 1960-D Lg/Sm Date 1964 SMS from the variety set. Since the Red Book doesn't list them and now PCGS won't recognize them, what happens to those 28 or so 1960-Ds or the 4 1964 SMS' that were once recognized and slabbed? Are they now simply worth face or are these bound to be worth even more now? Anyone know if NGC still recognizes them?

Since the SMS' are only recognized in the Red Book as mint sets, what happens to all of the SMS slabbed coins? The Red Book lists the quantity of mint sets made but I don't know if the particular coin mintage includes those in mint sets or not. Since they have never been included in the MS sets, and since they are not recognized in the Red Book, does this also mean they are no longer included in the proof sets? Again, are we going to end up with a bunch of cents in slabs or does this possibly have the effect of creating a real rarity?

Any thoughts? Thanks, Dave

Steve

My opinion is that it is going to take months before all this weighting and changes in set composition is sorted out. In the end, REAL rarity coins will be in demand and bring high prices, regardless of whether the coin is recognized in the registry at this time. I also beleive that the current rule of first ADDING the bonus points to the Lincoln grade and THEN weighing is over comping for red and red brown coins. I think that over time this will be recognized by PCGS and the bonus for red and for red/brown will be added only AFTER the weighing. Steve

keithdagen

Did get a very quick response back from David Hall on the weighting of the Memorials. PCGS's stance is that the moderns have been overlooked from a collecting and submission standpoint, so they don't want to artificially weight something high that isn't rare because the populations are still low. They plan to review it in about a year and see if the populations have matured a little more.

Keith

Gerry

I agree with Steve on all of the good points he makes - I guess it all means we need to have some patience.