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New Collecting Direction-I invite your images

I am almost bereft of coins, having sold virtually all of my initial 3 year, 350ish country world coin collection over the last 3 years
(funny how that worked-it went out at the same rate of acccumulation, 6 years measured by the ebb and flow of smallish round metal objects goverened by market forces).

I only bought coins that I thought were attractive, regardless of grade, and disposing of them was as exciting as accumulating them and I did well.

Now, like many collectors (in their second or third stage of collecting), I only want the best (I will be able to afford) that I can accumulate in the next 15 years.

Really wanted to do France but my current budget will never allow it.

Regarding a peculiarity in my family: my grandfather served in French Indochina in the early to mid part of the 20th Century as a light Colonel, my Uncle (his son) at The Bataille de Diên Biên Phu when the French had their Francs kicked (he went on to Major General rank before being killed in an auto accident while on his way to a NATO meeting in Germany the 60's).

In 1969 his nephew (me) went on to serve in the US Navy in Vietnam.

3 Generations of our family at war for two different countries in the same place, I guess not too many can make that claim.

So, from that seed grows this collecting desire: French IndoChina followed by other former and current French Colonies-it's a lot of territory to cover.

I certainly invite comments as to this decision and invite forum members to post their favorite coin images of French IndoChina coins as inspiration.

Ed: I hasten to add please list your favorite reference for this country/period as I need to rebuild my library.
One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics
is that you end up being governed by inferiors. – Plato

Comments

  • coinpicturescoinpictures Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭
    SSP: Currently for sale in my eBay Store. Antique toning is darker than the photo implies.

    I always liked the reverse scrollwork on this design.

    image
  • imageimage

    Best wishes in your collecting re-definition.
    It's giving me some ideas....image
    Life got you down? Listen to John Coltrane.
  • theboz11theboz11 Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭
    I have a lot of those "been there done that's" behind me . You have seen the direction my collecting taste in beauty has taken me. Good luck, but medals is a natural step, far rarer and IMHO far more beautiful and historic.

    image


    image


    My new web site is almost ready, but I think I have all the medals in and labled for preview. Posted in my sig lineimage

  • spoonspoon Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭
    A good choice rich in artistic quality and diversity. The coins are great, but if you're getting into this area you have to do the banknotes too. I actually sold off most of my FIC coins in favor of notes image

    The BEST online reference hands-down is this.

    The owner of that site used to sell on ebay and I built the bulk of my FIC/Vietnam collection from him. Good guy image
  • spoonspoon Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭
    But, yeah, French colonials are definitely a fun collection focus. There is a ton of stuff that is relatively cheap and easy to find, making the learning stages that much easier. But as you grow into it you soon realize the breadth of the topic.

    A fun and quick one, with only a few keys is a collection of aluminum 1 francs from the post-war departments d'outre-mer and other territories. They're all somewhat uniform, but still a great diversity.

    Eh, this is too close to my own interests.. I'll just babble on. I better just get some pics up and let them speak on their own image
  • spoonspoon Posts: 2,798 ✭✭✭
    Some French colonial banknotes:

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    And Vietnam for good measure:
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  • laurentyvanlaurentyvan Posts: 4,243 ✭✭✭
    I hadn't considered banknotes but after seeing Spoon's offerings maybe it's something I should consider as a companion to the coins...image

    'course, Boz makes a good case for companion medals- they are stunning!

    And I do love those Piastres.image
    One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics
    is that you end up being governed by inferiors. – Plato
  • I would suggest the US-PI category, as there are several challenges to completing the set, but most anyone could establish a respectable collection of lower grade coins, except for a few of the extremely rare pieces. The latter (such as the 1906-S Peso) will cost you a tidy sum even in Fine condition, but still they aren't out of reach of many collectors.

    Also, there are only 153 coins in PCGS's registry, though they have not included all significant varieties, such as the 1914-S Long Bar 10 Centavos. Still, they have included most of them. Even adding the proofs to your collecting will only add another 35 coins, and the proofs can often be obtained from the less knowledgeable for uncirculated prices - in the last month I have picked up both 1903 and 1904 Proof Centavos for MS60 money, and they are both at least PR63 pieces. I don't have pictures of the 1903 yet. That one is nearly complete RED, but I'll try to add it this weekend. I have already posted the seller's pics of the Proof 1904 Centavo, and I don't think I can do any better on that one. As well, Filipino collectors often handled their proofs, so there are quite a number of circulated proofs available for less money. I have even seen (and sold) a CLEANED 1908(P) Centavo, which was only available as a proof; otherwise, I would have not believed it to be a proof coin, though it didn't look too bad.

    Some of the challenges include...
    Some very low mintage figures for many, though when found, the prices still are not through the roof.
    Conditional rarities - It seems most coins in every category (even the 1906-S Peso) have been cleaned, many harshly.
    Low survivability due to silver melts - According to Neil Shafer, by 1916 only 9% of the 1903-1906 pesos had not been melted or recoined into smaller pieces.
    Low survivability due to World War II - In 1942, the few silver coins remaining, (waiting to be shipped state side to be melted), were dumped into the ocean to keep them from the advancing Japanese, and the Japanese took any that were missed, (or not adequately hidden by the Filipinos).
    Low survivability due to climate and usage - This particularly applies to the base coinage, (the one and five centavos), since bronze and copper-nickel do not fair well with such high heat and humidity, and most Filipinos were too busy surviving to bother with saving any coins for a personal collection.

    There are several issues for which there is ZERO gem representation, so finding MS65 and above is particularly challenging.

    In the book United States Territorial Coinage For The Philippine Islands, Shafer states, "U.S.-Philippine coins have been sold as bullion, destroyed in war, melted by the millions, dumped into the sea by the millions, and a few were even used as money!"

    Even with all of the above, prices are still within the reach of a majority of collectors... but they have been rising significantly lately. It is quite common to see AU grades and above of the pre-commonwealth coinage sell at prices significantly higher than Red Book prices.

    One thing to keep in mind though, after MacArthur returned in 1944, the coinage had to be replaced, and all three U.S. Mints state side (the U.S. Mint in Manila had been destroyed in the war) minted massive numbers of coins for circulation, so even in MS66RED a 1944-S Centavo does not command anywhere near the price of the MS66RED 1939-M Centavos, since there is only one recorded by PCGS of the latter, with none higher. That one is in Justhavingfun's registry set.

    Though I haven't included pictures, Jetblack74Oil has imaged most of his 91.5% complete registry, and USAROK has beautifully imaged his complete type set collection.

    edited to add link to a NCS harshly cleaned 1906-S Peso
  • laurentyvanlaurentyvan Posts: 4,243 ✭✭✭
    IloiloKano, I had considered this as an area of interest and you make a great case for it.image

    I guess the choice I made had to do with family history and what I could really engage with, be impassioned about.
    Besides, there are coin design elements shared by France and its colonies that will allow me to purchase certain French
    coins as "colony companions", so to speak.
    One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics
    is that you end up being governed by inferiors. – Plato
  • Here are some - The French colonies are real fun and beautiful:

    imageimage
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    shep
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  • theboz11theboz11 Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭
    How about Mariannes

    image


    Or perhaps French Shooting Medals

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  • BjornBjorn Posts: 529 ✭✭✭
    French Colonies gives you a lot of options - are you limiting your collection to any particular centuries or continents?
  • StorkStork Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it's a great choice of themes--except that we may end up chasing after some of the same coins!!

    I've been slowing and occasionally accumulating coins from what I'd taken to calling the "French Territories of the 20th century".

    I'd been searching for nice WW2 era (give or take a few years) aluminum coins from Japan (still looking btw) and ran across the aluminums from the French group. Got interested and now I have a small pile--not all aluminum anymore.


    Cathy

  • laurentyvanlaurentyvan Posts: 4,243 ✭✭✭
    Bjorn, 19th and 20th centuries, wherever there was (or is) a French Colony-should keep me busy for a while.image
    One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics
    is that you end up being governed by inferiors. – Plato
  • Laurent,
    The only French colonial coins that I refused to offload when I offloaded my non-British Commonwealth banknotes & coins in late 2006 were the coins of the New Hebrides.

    The coins of the New Hebrides can be collected as a part of the British Commonwealth series,as the New Hebrides became independent within the British Commonwealth in 1980 as the Republic of Vanuatu.

    I have got an example of the 1966 silver 100 Francs Essai,which you can see here & here.I first saw that coin in 2000 when it was in the collection of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand.It was sold off in a very controversial numismatic auction to my boss's twin brother.I ended up buying that same coin off him a few years later for NZ$150.

    Aidan.
  • laurentyvanlaurentyvan Posts: 4,243 ✭✭✭
    I see in the notes that the coins of NH in 1982 were an emergency issue. My older 32nd edition of Krause obviously hadn't caught up to that fact value-wise, image
    nor were mintage#s known- how many of each do you suppose exist?,

    Why was it a controversial auction?
    One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics
    is that you end up being governed by inferiors. – Plato


  • << <i>I see in the notes that the coins of NH in 1982 were an emergency issue. My older 32nd edition of Krause obviously hadn't caught up to that fact value-wise, image
    nor were mintage#s known- how many of each do you suppose exist?,

    Why was it a controversial auction? >>



    Laurent,
    I have got the New Hebridean Post-Independence Coinage 1 Franc & the 5 Francs dated 1982.Unfortunately,the 1982 coins aren't even listed in Krause at all.

    The auction in 2003 was controversial because one of the lots contained New Zealand traders' currency tokens that had been donated by a prominent family here in Wellington many years ago to the Treasury on behalf of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand.

    There was a bit of an outcry,including by me,so I had written a letter to the editor expressing my anger over the auction.In the end,a few lots were pulled out of the auction.Which ones,I don't know.

    Still,getting the 100 Francs Essai was a bonus out of that.

    Aidan.
  • shirohniichanshirohniichan Posts: 4,992 ✭✭✭
    image
    image
    Obscurum per obscurius
  • ormandhormandh Posts: 3,111 ✭✭✭
    I have some unc. minors and some various coppers that you may have for a good deal. Pm me if you want a list. -Dan
  • laurentyvanlaurentyvan Posts: 4,243 ✭✭✭
    Very nice Shiroh!

    PM sent ormandh.
    One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics
    is that you end up being governed by inferiors. – Plato
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