USPS insurance claims...
digicat
Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
I'm not in the middle of a problem, so I'm just asking this question because I'm curious.
A card is sold on Ebay for $500. USPS insurance is purchased to cover the whole cost. If the item gets destroyed or lost, will the USPS just pay the ammount the insurance covered, or are there additional steps involved?
Would it be the responsibility of the sender or the recipiant to deal with the USPS on this issue?
I've heard before that the USPS would want proof of value. Would that just be a print out of the closed auction?
A card is sold on Ebay for $500. USPS insurance is purchased to cover the whole cost. If the item gets destroyed or lost, will the USPS just pay the ammount the insurance covered, or are there additional steps involved?
Would it be the responsibility of the sender or the recipiant to deal with the USPS on this issue?
I've heard before that the USPS would want proof of value. Would that just be a print out of the closed auction?
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Comments
<< <i>I'm not in the middle of a problem, so I'm just asking this question because I'm curious.
A card is sold on Ebay for $500. USPS insurance is purchased to cover the whole cost. If the item gets destroyed or lost, will the USPS just pay the ammount the insurance covered, or are there additional steps involved?
Would it be the responsibility of the sender or the recipiant to deal with the USPS on this issue?
I've heard before that the USPS would want proof of value. Would that just be a print out of the closed auction? >>
USPS hates paying claims, as does UPS and FedEx.
If it is destroyed there better be sufficient packaging to protect it from damage under normal circumstances. Normal to USPS is different from normal to us, and might include a 70# package being dropped on it from 2 feet.
If it's packaged well and the value is reasonable, an ebay sale should be good enough. If it seems unreasonable to the first person to look at it then they might want more proof of value or at least an explanation to go with the ebay sale. You couldn't expect them to cover a 1990 donruss sammy sosa for $500.
The shipper buys insurance to protect the shipper, and only the shipper can collect. The shipper of course would be expected to reimburse the buyer. If the item is underinsured or shipped with less than appropriate protection the shipper would be expected to reimburse the buyer, even if USPS denies the claim.
You should be able to find most, if not all, of your answers HERE
PoppaJ
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Neither I nor my close associates have ever had a problem dealing with USPS insurance.
Prove your claim and it will be approved; denied claims can be appealed.
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The shipper/seller liability decscribed largely applies to PayPal transactions on EBAY.
AWAY from EBAY, PayPal is ONLY concerned with DELIVERY of the item, proved via
DC/SC. Damage claims - via SNAD-nonsense - by the uninsured/underinsured buyer don't fly.
AWAY from EBAY, a SNAD-claim with PayPal is a non-starter. Thus, PayPal becomes "safe"
for sellers to use.
I know you have an insider view of the topic. So, to prove value, an ebay auction that closed recently is good? I guess showing 3 auctions close would be a tighter case. I would certainly that is reasonable evidence because ebay sales do reflect what people are willing to pay for an item.
For sale ads are not good enough for obvious reasons. I would hope one does not have to go as far as getting an appraiser involved. A PSA card is straight forward. But what if the $500 card was raw? You may have insured it for $500 under the stipulation the shipper thought it was Near Mint. What if the post office asks for proof of condition? Now that is going to be a real hassle.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
Whereas an ebay sale is proof of current value, what if the item was not sold on ebay? Is the price the actual sale price or the actual "valued" price? What if the card was not sold at all, but was part of a trade or as a gift? There are so many variables such as replacement cost, what the item was originally purchased for, what its appraised value would be, that I guarantee you will get the smallest value if the USPS has anything to say about it.
Its no secret that I feel that insurance by the USPS is larger than any scam ever pulled on ebay. You are paying them to do a job, then paying them extra so that they DO it correctly, then when they dont, they want you to jump through hoops and prove the original cost.
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ALL insurance is a "scam," until it rescues the insured from a major loss.
But, the USPS has "accidents" and makes "mistakes," that ONLY
insurance can fix. The USPS cannot guarantee they won't mess-up;
the insurance is a substitute for the guarantee. They don't mess-up
on purpose, and "accidents and mistakes" happen.
IF the USPS were to "guarantee" perfect service, the cost would have
to be split-up among ALL users. If everything was guaranteed, it would
cost a BUNCH just to mail a letter. Under the current scheme, the folks
who NEED/WANT insurance pick-up the tab; that is fair.
Proving "values" on a legitimate, small-dollar claim is seldom a problem.
EBAY sales tickets work just fine.
........
Smart sellers toss a buck into a jar on low-value items and let 'em fly
w/o USPS insurance. At the end of the year, the jar is usually FULL.
(That practice is NOT a good idea on items much over $100.00.)
<< <i>You couldn't expect them to cover a 1990 donruss sammy sosa for $500. >>
So, how about with low-pop cards or inexplicably high sales? Last year I got $152 for a 1986 Donruss Will Clark PSA 10. One sold 10 days earlier for $51.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
I was under the impression that either the buyer or the seller could initiate a claim.
At least that is what I remember reading on the USPS site.
Steve
Domestic Indemnity = Insured, Registered, COD, and Express Mail®:
The sender or addressee may file.
When the item has Merchandise Return Service, only the permit holder may file.
If the mailer files a damage claim for an article still in the possession of the addressee, the St. Louis ASC will notify the addressee by letter to present the damaged article and mailing container, including any wrapping, packaging, and any other contents that were received, to the Postal Service for inspection. However, if the mailer insists that the addressee return the article to them, the addressee must return the item through the US Postal Service. The original mailing container, including the wrapping, packaging, and any contents that were received must be mailed inside a new mailing container with sufficient packaging material to prevent further damage to the article.
.......
Indemnity payments are issued as followed:
Whoever the sender designates on PS Form 1000, in Section A, number 3a.
Whoever filed the claim and has the original mailing receipt.
If both sender and addressee (recipient) file, payment is made to sender
Accepted Claims are Paid Out:
Up to $50: At the local Post Office™ (Payment can be made in cash or a no-fee money order).
Over $50: By the USPS claims processing center. (Payment is mailed)
If you have questions about payment (such as where to cash it):
If the payment has not been received, please wait until the payment has been received.
If there are still questions after the payment has been received, please contact your local Post Office.
Postage reimbursements will be included with the claim payment, if the article was lost or totally damaged.
Insurance fees will not be reimbursed. Fees are not reimbursed because they cover the price of insurance.
Timeframe: Once all documentation is submitted and the claim is payable, a payment is usually issued within 30 days.
You get lots of bites at the apple. Simply find the weakness in your
initial clam, and beef up the soft spots on appeal.
They are NOT trying to screw you. They just don't want to get screwed.
......
Appeals
· How do I appeal a claim that was denied?
For a denied claim, you may appeal a decision by filing a written appeal within 60 days of the date of the original decision to the following address:
Accounting Services
Domestic Claim Appeals
PO Box 80143
St. Louis, MO 63180-0143
In your appeal, please explain why your case should be reviewed. Also, make sure that evidence of value, evidence of mailing and insurance coverage for the article have been submitted.
· How do I appeal a claim that was paid as a smaller amount?
For a check sent in an amount less than the insured amount, you may submit a check protest appeal by filing a written appeal within 60 days of the date of the check to the following address:
Accounting Services
Check Protest
PO Box 80140
St. Louis, MO 63180-0140
· What information do I need to provide in order to file an appeal on a claim?
In your appeal, please explain why your case should be reviewed. Also, make sure that evidence of value, evidence of mailing and insurance coverage for the article has been submitted.
· If my claim is denied a second time, what is the next step?
You may file a final appeal to the Consumer Advocate in writing within 60 days of the date of the denial. In your appeal, please explain why your case should be reviewed. Also, make sure that evidence of value, evidence of mailing and insurance coverage for the article has been submitted.
Submit the appeal to the following address:
Consumer Advocate
Domestic Claims Appeals
475 L’Enfant Plaza SW RM 10343
Washington DC 20260-0343
From the USPS site:
Proof of Damage or Partial Loss of Contents
*
If the addressee files the claim, the addressee must make the damaged article and mailing container available to the USPS for inspection, including any wrapping, packaging, and any other contents that were received.
*
If the mailer files the claim, the St. Louis Accounting Service Center (ASC) will notify the addressee by letter to present the damaged article and mailing container to the USPS for inspection, including any wrapping, packaging, and any other contents that were received. Failure to do so will result in denial of the claim.
*
For claims filed online, the damaged item and packaging must be presented to the local Post Office with the printer-friendly version of the online claim summary.
Ahhh see where you said that above storm.
My dyslexia kicked in.
Steve
<< <i>So either can file?
Steve >>
.........
Yes.
But,
Indemnity payments are issued as followed:
Whoever the sender designates on PS Form 1000, in Section A, number 3a.
Whoever filed the claim and has the original mailing receipt.
If both sender and addressee (recipient) file, payment is made to sender,
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When dealing with PayPal, it is safest to make sure you designate yourself
(sender/seller) as the person to receive the payout.
Otherwise the SCUM that have taken over EBAY - posing as buyers -
will end up with a PayPal refund AND a USPS refund.
<< <i>"...The shipper of course would be expected to reimburse the buyer. If the item is underinsured or shipped with less than appropriate protection the shipper would be expected to reimburse the buyer, even if USPS denies the claim. ..."
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Neither I nor my close associates have ever had a problem dealing with USPS insurance.
Prove your claim and it will be approved; denied claims can be appealed.
>>
I don't remember which board it happened on, but I remember a case a year or 2 ago where a seller insured for much less than the selling price, and the item was destroyed. If you sell a card for $1000 and insure for $200, USPS will pay $200 and the seller is responsible for the missing $800.
<< <i>
<< <i>You couldn't expect them to cover a 1990 donruss sammy sosa for $500. >>
So, how about with low-pop cards or inexplicably high sales? Last year I got $152 for a 1986 Donruss Will Clark PSA 10. One sold 10 days earlier for $51. >>
" If it seems unreasonable to the first person to look at it then they might want more proof of value or at least an explanation to go with the ebay sale. You couldn't expect them to cover a 1990 donruss sammy sosa for $500. "
If you can explain what low pop is, and why it sold for so much, that would be ok. I think USPS is always aware of fraud and would be suspicious of something that just doesn't make sense.
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Yup.
In the old days, it was common for a seller to sign the docs and send them
along with the ins receipts to the buyer. The buyer could then handle the
deal at his end, and the USPS would send the buyer a check.
Since all trust has been destroyed via PayPal's actions, it is common for the
seller to mail the ins-claim form to the buyer for signature; the buyer mails
it back to the seller and the seller files it. (That is not necessary, but sellers
no longer trust that buyers will act honestly.)
The USPS is very flexible about how they handle all aspects of the process.
If the seller files, the PO will/may send somebody out to the buyer for a look at
the item. If the buyer files a damage claim, he can bring the item to the PO
when he files.
If it's a lost mail issue, the buyer simply signs the affidavit saying he did
not get the item. (If he tries to sell it on EBAY later, he may get a knock on
his door from ARMED agents.)
It is an easy scheme to follow, and works well UNLESS you get a bad buyer
who either refuses to cooperate or trys to SCAM PayPal AND the PO.
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Yup.
That, of course, applies to PayPal transactions on EBAY.
Away from EBAY, only an INR claim can be decided against
the shipper.
If the seller collects for full-insurance, and under-insures,
PayPal will enforce the liability on EBAY transactions. Away
from EBAY, PayPal ONLY cares about INR. The buyer may or
may not get help from a creidt-card company on the issue
of under-insurance; if not, it's just another "civil matter"
that must be brought against the fraudster.
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I went to a retailer's luncheon last week. TONS of folks
were complaining about "card present" and "card not
present" chargebacks. If the problem continues, many
small retailers will simply stop accepting credit cards.
As the economy gets worse, even the "honest" folks
will become scammers. NOT a good time to be accepting
credit cards from strangers.
I did this because I had a DC stating the item was delivered. The buyer insisted it was not.
So, I simply said ok, you deal with them here ya go.
Funny thing about this whole incident is how the buyer insisted I insure the item.
Steve
<< <i>The lone time it happened to me I furnished the form, and the receipt to the buyer.
I did this because I had a DC stating the item was delivered. The buyer insisted it was not.
So, I simply said ok, you deal with them here ya go.
Funny thing about this whole incident is how the buyer insisted I insure the item.
Steve >>
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USPS knows that mistakes happen on DC.
If the buyer will sign the affidavit claiming INR, the insurance
will usually pay. They do have lists of serial folks - and serial
ZIP codes - that they are cautious of, but your story indicates
one of the few times that insurance protects the buyer in a
PayPal transaction.