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Amos Otis vs. Ken Singleton

DarinDarin Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭✭✭
Otis was a high quality player for the Royals for a long time, doesn't seem to get much respect.
Singleton walked a little more, so his OBP is higher, but Otis was a great centerfielder so I give him the nod as best player.

P.S.- I was tired of Jim Rice always being in these threads, so I came up with something different. All opinions welcome.

Comments

  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭
    What about Lee May?
  • DavidPuddyDavidPuddy Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭
    What about Reggie Smith?
    "The Sipe market is ridiculous right now"
    CDsNuts, 1/9/15
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,696 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What about Gene Tenace..


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • purduepetepurduepete Posts: 791 ✭✭✭
    I vote for Chet Lemon...
    Tom

    Collecting: Topps 1952-79, Bowman 1952-55, OPC 1965-71, and Pre-War White Sox cards


  • Claudell Washington
  • DarinDarin Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice tries, so far Amos Otis beats all the aforementioned.image
    And I don't even need all the cumbersome stats to back up my claims like hoopster. I just get by on pure BS most of the time.

    I was going to compare him to Paul Blair, since both were CF, but Famous Amos beats him hands down.
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,696 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dwight Evans.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Amos Otis is one of the most underrated players of my lifetime. He had really good, but not great, power, he took a lot of walks, was great on the bases and played Gold Glove center field. Otis is exactly the kind of player that gets overlooked and underrated: he played in a small city, he had his best years when his team wasn't very good and 90% of his value was in being good at everything without being the greatest at anything. Otis also did his best hitting in late/close situations, but that gets forgotten quickly for players on teams that don't win much.

    But being good at everything is more rare than being great at one or two things, and Otis was a better player than a whole lot of players who are remembered more than he is. Don't confuse this with a HOF endorsement - he wasn't that good, but he was very close.


    But as much as I like Amos Otis, he wasn't as good as Ken Singleton. They look close only if you ignore walks, and even though lots of people do that doesn't mean they're not imporant. Otis took a lot of walks, but Singleton was a walk machine, making the top-10 12 seasons in a row. And Singleton did not get his walks at the expense of other things relative to Otis; his BA and slugging are both higher than Otis', and the walks give him a 45 point advantage in OBP. A 45 point advantage in OBP is HUGE, and although Otis has a lot of nice intangibles that make up ground on Singleton, they do not begin to make up that much ground.

    Otis and Singleton are similar in that they were both good at everything more than they were great at anything, so the Neanderthals ignore both of them because they didn't lead the league in very much, but to find a comparable player to either of them you have to look at HOFers or near-HOFers. But Singleton actually wins comparisons with HOFers that Otis loses and Singleton ought to be in the HOF. At the time he retired Singleton was one of the 75 best hitters of all time and he's still one of the top 100.
    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • DarinDarin Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Dwight Evans. >>



    He won eight gold gloves to Amos Otis' three.
    But one year Amos stole 52 bases, Evans stole 78 in his whole career.
    Okay, Evans was probably better than Otis.
    image
  • DarinDarin Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dallas- Nice post. Thanks for the respect you gave to Amos Otis. He also hit .478 in the 80 world series in a losing cause.
    I was kind of wondering when I made this post how many people would remember him, except Royals fans like me.
  • aro13aro13 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭
    I was wondering how long it would take dallasactuary to post. I always liked watching those Royals teams of the 70's. Great group of likeable players and perhaps the best manager to ever walk the face of the earth.
  • "I always liked watching those Royals teams of the 70's."

    Ditto!! George Brett was clearly the leader -- but he had a nice "supporting cast" -- Hal McRae, Dan Quisenberry, A.O., Dennis Leonard, Fred Patek, ...
  • Ted Simmons, Bobby Grich, Dave Parker.
  • jaxxrjaxxr Posts: 1,258 ✭✭
    The two fine ball players, who are the subject of this thread,
    both were rookies with, and played a couple years for, the NY Mets. Good farm system perhaps.

    Otis has 5 AS games selections, Singleton 3, neither ever was a league leader in a triple crown batting stat., Singleton did lead the NL once, in on base pct., while Otis did lead the AL one time, in steals.

    Otis was a outstanding defender with great speed, Singleton a fair defender at best , with a negative steals - caught stealing rate, was best suited for a DH role.

    Both guys had a BA, OBP, and Slg %, above the peer/league average, Singleton by more of a margin, he was the better batter, although Otis actually averaged MORE total bases per season then Singleton. Amos Otis is the much better defender in a key position CF, and by far, a much better base runner.

    The comparison of the two probably depends on the role for a specific ball club, as a regular on the field player, Otis gets the nod, as only a pure DH, Singleton would be the pick.
    The subjective element of the evaluation of defense and base running compared to hitting, and value or weight of each aspect, is where the choice comes down to the qualities valued most.

    It may be interesting to note, the four popular HOF tests/inks, ALL unanimously, calculate both as unqualified for the HOF. BB Ref.com rates Gary Matthews as very comparable to both Singleton and Otis.

    image
    This aint no party,... this aint no disco,.. this aint no fooling around.
  • estangestang Posts: 1,322 ✭✭✭
    I'll call it a push. Ralph Garr had a very high BA for his career.
    Enjoy your collection!
    Erik
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