Is TIm Tebow the greatest college football player of all time?

MantleMarisFordBerra · January 8, 2009 1:10PM

The annoucers brought it up late during tonight's game, and in the past few weeks I've read several online stories stating that he is. He has my vote. Remember, he's got one more year left too!!

Who was better?

joestalin · January 8, 2009 1:11PM

He is going to be wearing a bucs jersey next season!

mmsportscards · January 8, 2009 1:14PM

good luck with that if he come out he'll be wearing a lion jersey for sure

wolfbear · January 8, 2009 2:05PM

<< Who was better? >>

for starters :

Red Grange
Barry Sanders
Herschel Walker
Doak Walker
Sammy Bough
Tim Thorpe
Tony Dorsett
Bo Jackson
Roger Staubach
Vince Young

Dboneesq · January 8, 2009 2:09PM

<< The annoucers brought it up late during tonight's game, and in the past few weeks I've read several online stories stating that he is. He has my vote. Remember, he's got one more year left too!!

Who was better? >>

I'm sure you could argue for a few other guys, but you would have a real strong argument for Tebow as well!

Dboneesq · January 8, 2009 2:11PM

<< 

<< Who was better? >>

for starters :

Red Grange
Barry Sanders
Herschel Walker
Doak Walker
Sammy Bough
Tim Thorpe
Tony Dorsett
Bo Jackson
Roger Staubach
Vince Young >>

NOTHING LIKE GOING TO ESPN AND TAKING THEIR LIST OF THE TOP 10 BEST COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYERS. LOL However, I do not believe any current players were eligible to be included.

wolfbear · January 8, 2009 2:20PM

<< NOTHING LIKE GOING TO ESPN AND TAKING THEIR LIST OF THE TOP 10 BEST COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYERS. LOL >>

Oops ... you busted me ...

Boopotts · January 8, 2009 2:38PM

The best college player ever, IMO, is Orlando Pace. Or maybe Tony Mandarich. (I guess I should say 'in my lifetime'). Tebow is a fine player, but Meyer also won a national championship with Chris Leak at the helm, so it's hard to believe that much of his (Tebow's) success can't be attributed the program as a whole, and the talent that surrounds him.

Boopotts · January 8, 2009 2:40PM

<< He is going to be wearing a bucs jersey next season! >>

Early reports are that Jason Garrett is taking control of the Honolulu Blue next year, and that Sam Bradford will be the pick.

Publius · January 8, 2009 2:41PM

<< 

<< 

<< Who was better? >>

for starters :

Red Grange
Barry Sanders
Herschel Walker
Doak Walker
Sammy Bough ----------
Tim Thorpe
Tony Dorsett
Bo Jackson
Roger Staubach
Vince Young >>

NOTHING LIKE GOING TO ESPN AND TAKING THEIR LIST OF THE TOP 10 BEST COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYERS. LOL However, I do not believe any current players were eligible to be included. >>

Well if he cut and pasted it, ESPN doesnt know how to spell Baugh, or Wolfie typed it, and he's been tipping a few while watching the game. (Id go with the latter

)

I heard that question at the end of the game, and my first response was Red Grange, #2 IMHO, would be Doak Walker.

I hope Tebow does well in the NFL and doesnt end up another Matt Leinert, or Vince Young.

MPeter · January 8, 2009 2:57PM

He's above average and that's about it. It's the team around him that makes him appear better than he really is. Let him enjoy the spotlight now, because he's not going to do anything in the NFL.

Ahmanfan · January 8, 2009 5:02PM

I read that Jonathan Ogden could block most opposing DE's in college while drinking a cup of coffee with his other hand , he was that good.

John

mmsportscards · January 8, 2009 9:28PM

Oodles of players better than Tim. He's above average in skills and front of the line as a leader. He has some promise in the nfl he wont
walk in and set the league on fire for sure but he'll point where ever he go's in a better direction.

Things I dislike he pats the ball which really bugs me and Im still not convinced he sees the field all that well.

Things I love about him he's a big boy at 21 and willing to lower his shoulder every play.

DavidPuddy · January 8, 2009 9:42PM

<< He has some promise in the nfl he wont walk in and set the league on fire for sure but he'll point where ever he go's in a better direction. >>

I agree.

jeffcbay · January 8, 2009 10:29PM

Tim Tebow: The next Ryan Leaf!

larryallen73 · January 8, 2009 11:05PM

I don't think he is the greatest of all time but he certainly is a great player in the right system for him. I doubut he will get drafted the first day though.

MantleMarisFordBerra · January 8, 2009 11:32PM

<< Tebow is a fine player, but Meyer also won a national championship with Chris Leak at the helm, so it's hard to believe that much of his (Tebow's) success can't be attributed the program as a whole, and the talent that surrounds him. >>

Let's remember during that first national championship Tebow DID play a big part - I can't remember how many times they'd pull Leak for Tebow on 3rd & long or 4th when they'd go for it and Tebow would lower his shoulder & convert. I just re-watched the BCS title game against Ohio State and Tebow accounted for two T.D.s - one rushing & one passing. Tebow was a VERY big part of the championship team 2 years ago.

I admit I am very biased, but I still vote for Tebow as greatest all time in college & I'm not the only one. As far as ESPN's list, I didn't see many of those guys play so I can't comment other than to look at their stats. But I'll bet you one thing: 5 or 6 years down the line when a little bit of time passes to gain perspective, when ESPN does that list again Tebow is on it.

baseballfan · January 9, 2009 1:19AM

3 years 2 championships and a heisman already with one ore year left, he could be lets see what next year brings

stown · January 9, 2009 1:23AM

<< Who was better? >>

VY
Ricky Williams
Earl Campbell
Colt McCoy (<-pending)

edmundfitzgerald · January 9, 2009 2:01AM

I really didn't want to enter this debate, but oh what the heck.

Tommie Frazier from Nebraska was the MVP of 3 consecutive National Championship games. He was like 59-1 in
his career as a starter.

Tebow throws the ball better then Frazier, but Frazier was a better runner.

Vince Young's senior season was a little better then Tebow this year.

Joe Montana's senior year was a little better then Tebows.

Earl Campbell, Bo Jackson, Barry Sanders, Archie Griffin, Billy Sims, and a few others could make a case.

So no way is Tim Tebow the "best ever". There are way too many others that were just as good if not better.

markj111 · January 9, 2009 2:15AM

<< The best college player ever, IMO, is Orlando Pace. Or maybe Tony Mandarich. (I guess I should say 'in my lifetime'). Tebow is a fine player, but Meyer also won a national championship with Chris Leak at the helm, so it's hard to believe that much of his (Tebow's) success can't be attributed the program as a whole, and the talent that surrounds him. >>

Mandarich was on the juice. That disqualifies him in my book. If we had a fantasy draft of all-time college palyers, I seriously doubt that anyone would take Pace #1. Did he make SIs all time all-star college team? I can not remember.

markj111 · January 9, 2009 2:18AM

<< I really didn't want to enter this debate, but oh what the heck.

Tommie Frazier from Nebraska was the MVP of 3 consecutive National Championship games. He was like 59-1 in
his career as a starter.

What three years were those?

perkdog · January 9, 2009 2:19AM

<< 

<< Who was better? >>

VY
Ricky Williams
Earl Campbell
Colt McCoy (<-pending)

>>

Holy Chit!!!!!!! A Stown sighting!!!!!

+1 For that!

SanctionII · January 9, 2009 2:47AM

Who is this Tim Thorpe guy on the ESPN top 10 list? Never heard of him. However, he may be related to Jim Thorpe, who was a pretty good college football player.

RonBurgundy · January 9, 2009 3:34AM

No. Next subject.

jradke4 · January 9, 2009 3:47AM

<< 

<< Who was better? >>

for starters :

Red Grange
Barry Sanders
Herschel Walker
Doak Walker
Sammy Bough
Tim Thorpe
Tony Dorsett
Bo Jackson
Roger Staubach
Vince Young >>

I would say Ron Dayne was better college player than Young. Think about this everyone knew what WI was going to do with the ball on offense, yet he still broke the record for most career yards rushing. Then look at his two rose bowl games. He nearly broke the game record in the last one but the coaches didnt know that he only need less than 10 yds to do so at the end of the game so they subbed for him and did the kneel down plays as well.

jradke4 · January 9, 2009 3:51AM

<< I really didn't want to enter this debate, but oh what the heck.

Tommie Frazier from Nebraska was the MVP of 3 consecutive National Championship games. He was like 59-1 in
his career as a starter.

Tebow throws the ball better then Frazier, but Frazier was a better runner.

Vince Young's senior season was a little better then Tebow this year.

Joe Montana's senior year was a little better then Tebows.

Earl Campbell, Bo Jackson, Barry Sanders, Archie Griffin, Billy Sims, and a few others could make a case.

So no way is Tim Tebow the "best ever". There are way too many others that were just as good if not better. >>

Young never played his sr year. He went to the NFL after his jr season.
College career statistics
Year Passing Rushing
Comp Att Yards TDs Int Att Yds Avg TD
2003 84 143 1,155 6 7 135 998 7.4 11
2004 148 250 1,849 12 11 167 1,079 6.5 14
2005 212 325 3,036 26 10 155 1,050 6.8 12
Totals 444 718 6,040 44 28 457 3,127 6.8 37

One good year and a great Championship game dont make a top 10 all time player in my book.

Morgoth · January 9, 2009 4:30AM

Most feared College player ever was Hershell Walker and then Barry Sanders.

Boopotts · January 9, 2009 4:37AM

<< 

<< The best college player ever, IMO, is Orlando Pace. Or maybe Tony Mandarich. (I guess I should say 'in my lifetime'). Tebow is a fine player, but Meyer also won a national championship with Chris Leak at the helm, so it's hard to believe that much of his (Tebow's) success can't be attributed the program as a whole, and the talent that surrounds him. >>

Mandarich was on the juice. That disqualifies him in my book. If we had a fantasy draft of all-time college palyers, I seriously doubt that anyone would take Pace #1. Did he make SIs all time all-star college team? I can not remember. >>

I don't know anything about SI's all-star college team, although he did make SIi's 'All Century Team' as the starting OT.I do know there were people who thought that Orlando Pace could have started at LT in the NFL by the beginning of his senior year in high school, and he did nothing to dissuade anyone of that opinion while at OSU. He didn't allow a sack in his last two years at OSU, and he also won the Outland/Lombardi three times while at OSU (the only player to ever do that) and played DE on short yardage plays.

This is all from Wikipedia, so take it with a grain of salt. But I guess my point is that when we start talking about great NCAA players the discussion should go beyond the skill positions, and Orlando Pace's name should be in the mix.

sayheykid54 · January 9, 2009 5:41AM

Barry Sanders

dirtmonkey · January 9, 2009 5:53AM

No... but he could become one of the most decorated if he stayed another year and managed to win another Heisman & championship.

And no, the Lions wouldn't draft him. Well, at least not in the first 3 rounds anyways. Millen is gone, so nobody is going to be that stupid here (I hope).

edmundfitzgerald · January 9, 2009 6:50AM

It's got to be Tommie Frazier.

3 National Championship game MVP's
2 National Championships
59-1 record as a starter

larryallen73 · January 9, 2009 6:57AM

Not only is Tebow the greatest college football player of all time. I think he is the greatest athlete of all time. Beyond that, he is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Sincerely,

The Great State of Florida

stockergreen · January 9, 2009 7:54AM

yes

Connecticoin · January 9, 2009 8:26AM

<< It's got to be Tommie Frazier.

3 National Championship game MVP's
2 National Championships
59-1 record as a starter >>

And don't forget:

Johnny Rodgers
Vince Ferragamo
Turner Gill
Mike Rozier
Roger Craig
Irving Fryar
Eric Crouch

Sincerly,

Connecticoin
Nebraska '86

edmundfitzgerald · January 9, 2009 9:17AM

<< 

<< It's got to be Tommie Frazier.

3 National Championship game MVP's
2 National Championships
59-1 record as a starter >>

And don't forget:

Johnny Rodgers
Vince Ferragamo
Turner Gill
Mike Rozier
Roger Craig
Irving Fryar
Eric Crouch

Sincerly,

Connecticoin
Nebraska '86 >>

and.......

Dave Humm
Dave Remington
Grant Wistrom
Jason Peter
Ahman Green
Scott Frost
Ron Dole
I.M. Hipp
Turner Gill

Sincerely,
Tom Osborne and Bob Devaney

BigDaddyBowman · January 9, 2009 11:07AM

If you look at pure dominance...totally being head and shoulders above the rest of the competition..it would be hard not to argue that Red Grange was the greatest college football player of all time.

I hate to even mention this name in the same post as Grange, but Tony Mandarich was a pure beast that totally dominated as well...he abused the defensive linemen...he made the term pancake a common word in football. I remember ESPN would go through and count the pancakes each game, and it was unbelievable. Due to the steroid use, I will just shut up about him now though.

perkdog · January 9, 2009 11:23AM

The same type of "theories" applied to the best NFL player or QB ect.. can be applied here.

There is NO correct answer. <<<<<<< Yes that is a PERIOD

recbball · January 10, 2009 12:56AM

It seems all Florida QBs come to the Bears.

bman90278 · January 10, 2009 1:14AM

<< No. Next subject. >>

Couldn't have said it any better.

coinkat · January 10, 2009 1:24AM

Red Grange...

next!

Boopotts · January 10, 2009 4:47AM

<< The same type of "theories" applied to the best NFL player or QB ect.. can be applied here.

There is NO correct answer. <<<<<<< Yes that is a PERIOD >>

There almost certainly IS a correct answer. The problem is that nobody has developed a method for determining what the correct answer actually is.

perkdog · January 10, 2009 5:56AM

<< 

<< The same type of "theories" applied to the best NFL player or QB ect.. can be applied here.

There is NO correct answer. <<<<<<< Yes that is a PERIOD >>

There almost certainly IS a correct answer. The problem is that nobody has developed a method for determining what the correct answer actually is. >>

Please, if there was a correct answer to be found it already would have. Anyways it will be a matter of opinion in the least, how can any one player or one position be considered to be the best?

You say Orlando Pace I say Herschel Walker he says Tim Tebow someone says OJ Simpson- it can go on and on. So again I say there is NO CORRECT ANSWER!! Thats my opinion and Im sticking with it, you and the next guy have yours as well.

Boopotts · January 10, 2009 7:21AM

<< 

<< 

<< The same type of "theories" applied to the best NFL player or QB ect.. can be applied here.

There is NO correct answer. <<<<<<< Yes that is a PERIOD >>

There almost certainly IS a correct answer. The problem is that nobody has developed a method for determining what the correct answer actually is. >>

Please, if there was a correct answer to be found it already would have. Anyways it will be a matter of opinion in the least, how can any one player or one position be considered to be the best?

You say Orlando Pace I say Herschel Walker he says Tim Tebow someone says OJ Simpson- it can go on and on. So again I say there is NO CORRECT ANSWER!! Thats my opinion and Im sticking with it, you and the next guy have yours as well. >>

Uh, OK.

perkdog · January 10, 2009 7:31AM

<< Uh, OK. >>

Weak

Boopotts · January 10, 2009 12:03PM

<< 

<< Uh, OK. >>

Weak >>

I don't really want to start this, but if you insist...

Do you agree that Troy Aikman was a more dominant college player than, say, a second string linebacker for Prairie View? If so, how do you determine that? The answer, of course, is that you don't-- you simply assume that if Aikman could start- and prosper-- at UCLA, and a guy couldn't get off the pine at PV, then Aikman must have been superior. But you cannot offer any meaningful analysis above and beyond that.

So how about Aikman vs. Colt McCoy? Here the question gets a little blurrier, since any reasonable observer would agree that these two players run closer in ability-- or 'dominance'-- than the players in the previous example. As players' ability draws closer it becomes much more difficult to determine who's better.

Nevertheless, it logically follows that if player 'A' can be determined to be better than player 'B', and if the methodology which gives rise to the judgment is objective, then ANY two players' ability could, in theory, be distinguished from one another. There's no reason why you should be able to declare that player 'A' was better than 'B', but not if 'A' is better than 'C', UNLESS the methodology which produced the initial judgment was flawed. So, what this comes down to is a flaw in methodology. There is not, to date, any obvious way to overcome this, which is why if I say that Pace was the best, and you say Walker was the best, we have to let the discussion end right there. But that's entirely different from saying that it would be impossible to devise a methodology that could objectively distinguish one player from another.

In other words, there's an ocean of difference between saying that 'there's no right answer', and saying that 'we don't have the tools to uncover the right answer'. If you agree that these two statements do not mean the same thing then we're both in agreement over the main point of my earlier post. If you don't agree then the discussion (at least from my end) stops here.

Boopotts · January 10, 2009 12:12PM

<< boopotts,
I would disagree with your assessment. This isn't a mathematical or physics problem where a definitive answer could likely be found. ANY methodology, no matter how refined, is going to be rooted in opinion and not some scientific "objective" measurement. I realize that methodologies can be created to make better conclusions. But to crown the greatest college football player of all time, or the 10th best, or whatever is not an assignment conducive to definitive conclusions by any stretch of the imagination. >>

I fully agree that it isn't conducive. But don't confuse the two issues at work here. One issue is whether or not one player's talents can be distinguished from another. The other question is whether or not one player is, in fact, 'better' than another. It's possible--but not likely-- that there's a 'tie at the top', and that two players are, in fact, share the honor of being the most dominant of all time. But it's quite unlikely. What's more likely is that this honor belongs to one player, and one player only.

Just because we can never 'know' who that player is does not mean he does not exist. And if you agree that not all players are bestowed with equal abilities then it follows that one players' abilities are superior to all others who ever played the game.

Boopotts · January 10, 2009 12:18PM

<< I agree the player exists. I just disagree with the notion that there is any viable objective method for finding that person. >>

Then we agree on all points. I also don't think there's any method for finding that player, and I also strongly doubt there ever will be. If you check out my earlier post-- the one that started this-- all I said was that this player exists, but that nobody has developed a method for discerning who he is. But I said nothing to the effect that a model could be created that could pinpoint this player.

Boopotts · January 10, 2009 12:21PM

Just to clarify: I'm not trying to spilit hairs here, or- as Goot might say-- trying to be pedantic. I just think that this is an incredibly interesting subject (i.e., the notion that most methodologies which give rise to opinions are fundamentally and irreparably flawed), and I always enjoy talking about it when the occasion arises.

One of the fascinating facets of human behavior (at least to me) is how unwilling we are to say 'I don't know'. No matter how ill-informed we are, no matter how deeply flawed our analysis may be, the average adult is loathe to say these three words. And that goes double for sports fans. Ask 100 baseball fans who the greatest team is of all time, and 98 of them will give you a team and a year, and then launch in to a wearying diatribe on why they hold this opinion. Almost nobody will say the obvious-- which is that the question is almost unforgivably stupid.

I'm always amazed by the fact that entire television shows can be built around four or five jokers asking--and having the audacity to answer-- questions of this sort, when in fact none of them have the faintest idea what the real answer may be. It's like putting a dozen deaf guys in a room, training a TV camera on them, and asking them to describe the what the chirp of a cricket sounds like.

BigDaddyBowman · January 10, 2009 12:22PM

My head hurts after reading Boopott's dissertation..I have a Master's Degree and I had to look up the meaning to half of the words.

I agree that there is no way to decide who the best is..but it is more fun to debate than to just throw in the towel and say we can't choose one.

Boopotts · January 10, 2009 12:26PM

<< Yes we do agree. But if you look at perkdog's original post that started all this. He NEVER stated that the player didn't exist. He said there is no correct answer. As far as I'm concerned, there isn't. The "answer" implies just that, that there is a response to be had that is definitive. >>

There is a correct answer-- just as there's a correct answer to the question of whether a God exists, or any other question you might care to field. The fact that it cannot be answered does not mean that the answer is non-existent.

Is TIm Tebow the greatest college football player of all time?

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