I think I'll rip a RESEALED pack I just got in the mail.

fattymacs · January 8, 2009 3:04AM

Just got an ebay "win" that looks (99% sure) resealed. It didn't cost much as I feared it was resealed.

Now comes part B, what to do. I sent the seller a message, via ebay. The hassle of a return sucks, esp. for around $10.00

I haven't and won't open (or re-open) it until I hear back from the seller. Updates to follow.

dontippet · January 8, 2009 3:09AM

Can we have a link to the auction?

nightcrawler · January 8, 2009 3:11AM

<< <i>Updates to follow >>

stevek · January 8, 2009 3:12AM

I saw the auction states "no returns on resealed packs"

PROMETHIUS88 · January 8, 2009 3:18AM

Open the pack, pull anything you might want out of it, reseal it, then ship it back to the seller. Use a dirty pair of underwear as packing material. And when I say dirty pair, I mean wear them for 3-4 days.... without bathing or wiping. Go to the all you can eat burrito buffet and eat chilli for breakfast 3 days in a row. No chicken, only beef or pork is allowed. Top it off with a 12 pack of Milwaukee's Best with each meal. That'll teach him!

Good luck!

Ladder7 · January 8, 2009 3:20AM

Note to self, Don't ever cut off promethius in traffic!

fattymacs · January 8, 2009 3:23AM

I'll wait before providing an auction link. The auction did state the pack was "sealed", he never claimed "unopened".

jswieton · January 8, 2009 3:55AM

where is the auction link? What kind of pack/year was it?

storm888 · January 8, 2009 4:10AM

"...The auction did state the pack was "sealed", he never claimed "unopened". .."

///////////////////////////////////////////////////

A distinction without a difference, in a PayPal SNAD claim.

Such sellers need to be explaining the difference between
"sealed" and "unopened" to the FBI.

fattymacs · January 8, 2009 4:29AM

I'm gonna see what the dude replies before I do anything, if he's jerky, I'll just Neg him and out him here.

MBMiller25 · January 8, 2009 6:37AM

Open the pack, pull anything you might want out of it, reseal it, then ship it back to the seller. Use a dirty pair of underwear as packing material. And when I say dirty pair, I mean wear them for 3-4 days.... without bathing or wiping. Go to the all you can eat burrito buffet and eat chilli for breakfast 3 days in a row. No chicken, only beef or pork is allowed. Top it off with a 12 pack of Milwaukee's Best with each meal. That'll teach him!

Thats hilarious!

jeffcbay · January 8, 2009 6:39AM

<< <i>Open the pack, pull anything you might want out of it, reseal it, then ship it back to the seller. Use a dirty pair of underwear as packing material. And when I say dirty pair, I mean wear them for 3-4 days.... without bathing or wiping. Go to the all you can eat burrito buffet and eat chilli for breakfast 3 days in a row. No chicken, only beef or pork is allowed. Top it off with a 12 pack of Milwaukee's Best with each meal. That'll teach him!

Good luck! >>

Note to self: Never screw-over PROMETHIUS88... lol

milbroco · January 8, 2009 7:08AM

Probably a good idea from now on to clarify what is meant by "sealed pack" Even if he offers a refund, you should still out him here so none of us have to go through the hassle you are going through.
Good Luck,
Bob

fattymacs · January 8, 2009 7:11AM

I'm really wary of taking the refund, he may just relist it. I asked a few questions, when I get a reply I'll make a decision.

And as some have said never make PROMETHIUS88 angry, a burritto blizzard in the returned box would be nasty.

joestalin · January 8, 2009 7:34AM

Did someone just say that pack searchers need to explain their stories to the FBI???

ahhh ok

Dboneesq · January 8, 2009 9:23AM

PROMETHIUS .. That's NASTY ... but funny as hell. You had me LOL.

Fattymacs ... can you at least tell us what pack it is?

calaban7 · January 8, 2009 10:04AM

<< <i>Open the pack, pull anything you might want out of it, reseal it, then ship it back to the seller. Use a dirty pair of underwear as packing material. And when I say dirty pair, I mean wear them for 3-4 days.... without bathing or wiping. Go to the all you can eat burrito buffet and eat chilli for breakfast 3 days in a row. No chicken, only beef or pork is allowed. Top it off with a 12 pack of Milwaukee's Best with each meal. That'll teach him!

Thats hilarious!

>>

Your recipe is lame. To truely impress all your friends and enemies may I suggest----Boiled peanuts with dark beer, topped out with a few picked eggs.

You WILL thank me later.

fattymacs · January 9, 2009 12:10AM

The seller has replied, he is offering a refund once the pack is returned. His story: He buys collections and sells the stuff on ebay, so he dosen't know where/who the pack came from, he also says he's no expert on packs (as if). I'm thinking the dude will just relist it, It's only $11.50, plus I'd have to pay to return it in hopes he refunds me (I have no reason to believe he would not refund).

I've never returned anything, how's this work. How should I send it back? Or should I just keep it and move on.

mmsportscards · January 9, 2009 1:45AM

If he has good fb just send it back (2.00) bucks and Im sure he'll refund the money. If the moneys the object who know you might find
a real tough low common they left behind.

I gp through some of the same hassles buying lots at auction houses and collections. I can usually tell a resealed pack but sometimes its very tough.
Especially with 81 topps Ive seen legit loose packs and some really messed up packs that you swear were resealed but garnered 10 stars out of them so
I doubt they were searched.

storm888 · January 9, 2009 1:51AM

Even if you file a PayPal claim, you will have to pay the return postage.

If you send it back, use Delivery Confirmation.

If I was SURE the thing was tampered, I would NEG the seller and smash
his stars. It's the only way to get rid of the trash.

"I don't know if it's been tampered with," is NOT a legitimate marketing plan.

"I buy collections, but I don't know if the stuff is any good," IS a LIE.

fattymacs · January 9, 2009 1:53AM

The guy has good feedback, so I don't think I'm going do anything. The money isn't worth the trip to the post office, so I'll just let it go.

fattymacs · January 9, 2009 1:56AM

Now that I've heard from Storm I'm a bit angry, maybe a little negative action is in order. I'm still not wasting my time returning it, I'd rather have a resealed pack for $11.50 than nada for $2.00. My guess is he'd just sell it again.

mmsportscards · January 9, 2009 2:21AM

Fatty

Im prettysure I know what auctions you purchase and yes id be willing to bet its resealed.

If were talkin 77 era

fattymacs · January 9, 2009 2:45AM

Yup, I'll post more as I hear back from my reply to his answer.

Decent reseal job, if you've never scrutinized the stuff, blatantly obvious to me.

BobS · January 9, 2009 2:59AM

Rob -

If it is a 77, I'd bet dollar's to doughnuts there is no roller seal on the back. There are a TON of 77 baseball, 78 baseball and 79 topps hockey out there like that. Some real good resealer got a hold of "new" wrappers, perhaps from a roll, and made these packs with them. Corner folds look excellent, but the packs are sealed with a very small amount of glue below the flap. Another dead giveway is the packs are way too puffy. That's actually the first thing to look for. In profile, the top and bottom of legit packs should be flat, not rounded. If they were ever in a box (like legit packs), they are flat. These fakes are puffy. Another thing, what size is the gum? The bad 77's I've handled had late 80's (ie skinny) gum in them, not the fat pieces used in the late 70's.

If it is not a 77, sorry for the rant, but hopefully still some good info. for all to read.

rbdjr1 · January 9, 2009 3:23AM

... so, rip it!

...... rip it good!

rd

mmsportscards · January 9, 2009 3:42AM

Bobs-

I heard about them rolls and actually saw one somewhere dont recall. The pack in question is an opc
i'll say nothing they can do to me

I just figured out the clues provided through the board. It just doesnt
add up and have seen him selling them for months.

pack 8 bucks shipping 3 a box runs 450 scratching my head!!!

fattymacs · January 9, 2009 3:55AM

I've opened about 30 packs of OPC in the last couple months, this one is a definite reseal. If you'd like me to explain the clues, PM and I'll let you know. I figured there was a small chance it was legit, but for the price I thought WTF.

Beezer12 · January 9, 2009 1:43PM

I'm still curious what the seller did to deserve a neg unless he welches on a refund. Is this a known resealer? if so neg away please. I'm thinking a lot of people buy and resell wax who quite frankly don't have the expertise to even make an educated guess about the integrity of a seal. As a pack collector i prefer to buy from trusted people, 3rd party authentication opinion and from full boxes. Buying stray packs from unknowns is the easiest way to get burned from my own experience as I used to buy the cheap packs (cheap because the more knowledgable buyers stay away) despite the little voice in my head saying "stay away" but I have never assumed that the person I bought it from resealed or knowingly resold resealed wax and learned from the experience. You get what you pay for most of the time allthough I've had my share of my early collecting days purchases come back from GAI with a resealed sticker yet yield some nice money cards.

storm888 · January 9, 2009 2:14PM

"I'm still curious what the seller did to deserve a neg unless he welches on a refund...."

//////////////////////////////

That is a FAIR question.

There really is no waiver on EBAY listings for sellers who
"didn't know the item was fraudulent."

EBAY asks sellers if they are CERTAIN that the items they
are listing are as described and authentic.

Giving a seller the benefit of the doubt - which I would
NEVER do on the issue of resealed-packs - regarding his
knowledge of good/bad product, does not get him off the
hook for having violated EBAY rules and placing his buyers
at risk of loss.

IF you don't KNOW the product is good, don't list it. If you
do, a NEG is warranted. (If it was up to me, each seller
would get one warning and then be banned forever. That
is harsh, but it would solve the problem REAL fast.)

grote15 · January 9, 2009 3:23PM

Is the seller sfexchange?

nightcrawler · January 9, 2009 4:08PM

Is it just me, or has this thread been utterly useless.

We haven't seen a rip. We haven't seen an auction #. And we haven't... like, what are we even talking about???

fattymacs, you gonna make with the goods er what?

Beezer12 · January 9, 2009 4:29PM

Interesting points Storm.
It opens up some debate on pack sales on ebay in general possibly. I just checked PSA's site info on pack grading and can't find anything in writing guaranteeing their authentication service for packs and I'm fairly certain GAI is the same. You're paying for an informed opinion for seal integrity authentication, nothing more i believe. I understand EBAY recognizes those companies opinions as being expert though, so in doing so is a guarantee being aknowledged by ebay for 3rd party authenticated packs?

As for everyone else selling unslabbed packs, no one except the original owner should be able to offer a guarantee as to pack authenticity and there aren't too many of those folks around, particularly for older stuff. Pretty much every dealer is selling someone elses collection that they've purchased. Many of the these packs then recirculate in the market. Boyer used to sell of ten packs lots on ebay years ago from most late 70' and 80's stuff for a long time before he was outed. No doubt many of those packs got flipped to others, some probably were good enough to get slabbed at the time too. I've personally never been bothered by the sellers using the 'waiver" claim because even for an honest seller it would be true, they couldn't be 100% sure that a pack that may have passed through several hands over the years wasn't messed with if the crook was good at it.

nightcrawler · January 9, 2009 4:44PM

Oh ya, sorry, lots of talk about unopened and resealed.

Again, sorry. I'm just a little drumk (Hi Mike), and would like to se some cards... Dam it, heh heh.

fattymacs · January 10, 2009 1:33AM

The seller thanked me for my advice (I told him he shouldn't be dealing in packs if he can't spot a reseal) and offered me free shipping on my next order (as if that's going to happen).

I ripped the pack and the only thing amiss (other than the seal) is 2 cards do not follow the sequence I have charted (both commons), the cards look typical of the many others I have opened and the gum is identical. Someone ripped it, found nothing huge, possibly pulled the 2 best condition commons (from the center) and replaced them. suprememarketing2008 is where it came from.

storm888 · January 10, 2009 2:18AM

"...You're paying for an informed opinion for seal integrity authentication, nothing more i believe. I understand EBAY recognizes those companies opinions as being expert though, so in doing so is a guarantee being aknowledged by ebay for 3rd party authenticated packs?..."

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////

If the "opinion" is subsequently "proven/shown" not to be correct,
the buyer has recourse and PSA will solve the problem. The same
way they solve "mistaken opinion" problems on graded cards.

Disclaimers of "knowledge" are nothing more than disingenuous -
and dishonest - hedges erected to conceal FRAUD. That is why
even EBAY - arguably one of the most dishonest gangs on the
planet - does NOT allow such disclaimers as to "authenticity."

If a seller wants to sell unsourced packs, he should have them
authenticated, OR simply state that they are being sold as "likely
resealed." The hedge of "I dunno" is a powerful attraction to
gormless consumers and misleads MANY.

////////////////////////

The fact that resealed-pack seller suprememarketing2008 said
"thanks for telling me not to sell stuff about which I am clueless,"
and then offered "free shipping on your next order" says that he
knows consumers will buy ANYTHING.

stevek · January 10, 2009 2:21AM

<< <i>The seller thanked me for my advice (I told him he shouldn't be dealing in packs if he can't spot a reseal) and offered me free shipping on my next order (as if that's going to happen).

I ripped the pack and the only thing amiss (other than the seal) is 2 cards do not follow the sequence I have charted (both commons), the cards look typical of the many others I have opened and the gum is identical. Someone ripped it, found nothing huge, possibly pulled the 2 best condition commons (from the center) and replaced them. suprememarketing2008 is where it came from. >>

Exactly right - that's what they do....then get it reslabbed and sell it...an ongoing scam of monumental proportions - trying to bust slabbed packs for profit is a bigger sucker's game than playing online poker.

In my opinion there needs to be a machine designed to scan these packs because it's too easy to fool the human eye who are labeling these as authentic. I guess the problem is the expense of the equipment to do it versus the profit which could be achieved on slabbing fees, especially since there likely are very few unopened vintage packs out there, even in slabs, which are truly unopened.

fattymacs · January 10, 2009 2:22AM

Storm, your thoughts seem to be in-line with my thinking. I haven't left my feedback yet, as I am still thinking of the best way to write it. There is zero chance I buy from him again and I would hope no one here would either.

storm888 · January 10, 2009 2:36AM

"...I haven't left my feedback yet, as I am still thinking of the best way to write it...."

///////////////////////////////////

I am NOT telling you to leave a NEG.

I am telling you that I would leave a NEG.

"Sold Me A Resealed Pack. Offered Refund. Bad Place To Buy Wax Packs."

...........

Of course, I would immediately put the guy on my BBL. If he uses a different
ID to retaliate, EBAY will remove his FB.

/////////////////

A note for folks who think offering refunds makes everything OK:

I am collecting legitimate stuff, NOT refunds for fraudulent material.

ANY crook can offer a refund when he is CAUGHT. It is SOP. It does
not mitigate the offense.

I think I'll rip a RESEALED pack I just got in the mail.

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