POLL: PCGS Price Guide For 1909 VDB Matte Proof Lincolns

RBinTex

Grades of 63 & 64 seem to have a large disparity relative to each other:

63BN $5,500 - 64BN $30,000
63RB $7,750 - 64RB $37,500
63RD $9,500 - 64RD $45,000

Question is which one (or both) is "wrong" (if either).

Perhaps too wide a gap for these single grades?

Bonus question: How will this disparity play into bidding on the upcoming two Heritage has at FUN? The 64 goes way lower due to fear of downgrade to a mere 63 status? Methinks that'll be the case.

Personally, I think that the prices need to get closer to each other - i.e. 63's need to rise and 64's need to fall.

WaterSport

Regardless of how ugly the two at FUN are, They are IMHO still too low when you compare the coin to other scarce mintage's.

WS

DMWJR

It's more certain that the 63 values are too low. There have been a number of 64 sales to back up the values there. Without judging each coin on its own against the price guide, I would say the 64 prices are pretty accurate.

After all, this is the biggest "natural" rarity in the most collected series.

Steve

I have felt for awhile that the listed difference in PCGS pricing between PR63 09VDB MPL's and PR64 09VDB MPL's is too wide. As of the latest check I made, PCGS has certified a total of 99 1909VDB MPL's. Of that total 34 are PR64's, 32 are PR65's, 14 are PR66's and 2 are PR67's. That is a total of 82 of the 99 certified coins graded PR64 or higher. On the lower end is 1 (mine) PR61, 3 PR62 and 13 PR63 coins certified. Now we all know that there are crackouts in those numbers and some of those crackouts must have been the PR62 & PR63 coins looking for higher grades. If they got them, those PR62's and PR63's are no longer around, but are instead sitting as part of the PR64 numbers. If they didn't get them, then maybe one of those 3 PR62's and some of those PR63's are really duplicates of the same coin. So IMHO that is why we don't see PCGS 1909VDB MPL's in PR62 and PR63 come up for auction very often.

If that is the REAL situation then why should there be any significant drop-off in pricing of PR61, PR62 and PR63 PCGS slabbed 1909VDB MPL's? ChrisRx posted an interesting question here a couple of months ago.

I have stated before that, at least as far as PCGS graded 1909VDB Matte Proof Lincoln cents are concerned, they are very difficult to aquire in ANY grade and people who want one would probably be willing to accept a legitimate example in ANY condition and at higher prices than is currently shown on the PCGS price list for PR60 thru PR63 examples. JMHO.
Steve

2keele

As an owner of one of the 1909 VDB PR63's, I agree that they are under
priced by PCGS. A reputable dealer offered me 64rb money for my coin, though a
better argument for higher list prices would be availablity. For a price, a 1856 flying eagle
can easly be found. Almost any dealer in high grade copper will have 2 or more in his
case. I looked in one dealer's case, and he had three 1856's. I asked myself if I would
trade my 1909 VDB 63RD for two of his 1856 flying eagles. The list price of the of
the two flying eagles would be far greater than the list price of my coin. However, I
saw no dealer at this large coin show with a single VDB proof in his case.
If I should like to replace my coin or try to upgrade, how long of a wait would it be
before one would come to market? How many VDB red mattes have changed hands
in the last 5 years? PCGS population reports show only 30 certified matte VDB with
the red designation, and undoubtedly some of those are resubmissions. I suspect all 30
(if that is the accurate number) are in strong hands. Only strong prices would pry those
coins from their clinched fingers.
For what it's worth,
Drew

dbemike

JMO

I tend to think 63s bring stronger bids because for most collectors, its easier to afford DOUBLE the BV on a 63 than it is to afford a 64 at BV, depending on the coin, of course.

lasvegasteddy

i agree with all most all proclaimed here...these lower graded examples just haven't traded to establish their price as yet

garsmith

both to high IMHO

lusterlover

low mintage (scarce) + lower number of slabbed examples (rare) + high demand for the series = both prices too low
this doesn't even factor in quality

renomedphys

Lowest mintage, first year of issue, single year type, highest collected series, hottest market of 2008... c'mon! Too many things working in favor for this coin. Based on rarity, I'd say that the 1916s aren't getting their fair shake, but they've got nothing on the VDB in terms of desirability and pure neat-o factor.

Working at it from another direction... take the 1856 FE cent, and let's say it's the beloved S-1, 2, 3 MS version. For all the things that coin has working in it's favor, it's still the "Queen" of small cents. The SVDB on the other hand, with a mintage of 484,000, is and always will be the undisputed "KING". Why? Because it's a Lincoln.

So, are the VDB proofs overpriced? No way! They are simply worth whatever the market will bear, as there will never be enough to satisfy the community.

Steve

<< <i>

So, are the VDB proofs overpriced? No way! They are simply worth whatever the market will bear, as there will never be enough to satisfy the community. >>



And Matt, one other thing about the 1909VDB Matte Proof Lincoln cent. Call up ANY dealer in the country. Ask the dealer if he can get you a 09VDB MPL in a PCGS or NGC holder. Tell him you will accept the coin in ANY condition. Tell him you will give him $15,000 for the coin. I would bet the dealer could not get you the coin. Steve