2x2s

thelawnet

Are these suitable long-term storage for coins?

theboz11

Yes

tbirde56

If you keep 'em in a dry, inert environment they'll do but anything really valuable or high quality you should consider something more sealed to the outside.

dan8402

<< <i>Are these suitable long-term storage for coins? >>



That depends. There are 2x2s made out of PVC that are most certainly not safe for long-term storage. I wouldn't even trust them for short-term storage. On the other hand, mylar 2x2s are safe for long-term storage.

thelawnet

<< <i>

<< <i>Are these suitable long-term storage for coins? >>



That depends. There are 2x2s made out of PVC that are most certainly not safe for long-term storage. I wouldn't even trust them for short-term storage. On the other hand, mylar 2x2s are safe for long-term storage. >>



I did some research on PVC, albeit in the context of banknotes, a while back.

Here is what I wrote:



<< <i>According to Lindner,


"Our crystal clear pocket pages are made of a softener free, crystal
clear Hard-PVC film. "


And Safe imply the same:


"All material that comes in contact with your collection is guaranteed
archival quality, 100% free of plasticizers (chemical softening
agents) and free of stearates. The foil used does not contain
plasticized PVC. "


But there are several web pages advising that you avoid ALL PVC:


"Plastics such as polyvinyl chloride (PVC), which are chemically
unstable, should be avoided."


There's an interesting discussion here:


http://www.soviet-awards.com/forum/soviet-military-awards/paper-items...


'I would not put anything into PVC that I wanted to seriously archive.
Go to Google and type in "PVC archive". Read some of the results.
Mylar-D is the only plastic that I'm aware of that is chemically
stable. The rest all give off a gas over time which transfers onto
your paper. Mylar-D costs more, but you get what you pay for'


'The document enclosures in the range are made from Mylar-D. The local
museum staff STRONGLY suggested that PVC enclosures shoul NEVER be
used for long-term storage.'


There's a somewhat more technical discussion here:


http://ilmbwww.gov.bc.ca/risc/pubs/aquatic/photodoc/final photodoc-...


'Avoid notebook pages made of polyvinyl chloride. Volatile
plasticizers may be exuded from PVC enclosures, and deposit sticky
droplets or gooey coatings on the film, particularly at high humidity
(Keefe and Inch 1990, Wilhelm and Brower 1993). Even under low-
humidity conditions, the plasticizers in flexible PVC can cause
softening, sticking and partial transfer of photocopier images.
Polyvinyl chloride enclosures are inexpensive and widely available; be
extremely wary of any advertising that does not specify the type of
plastic used in the enclosure (Keefe and Inch 1990). Some PVC product
lines, such as the readily-available "DF Snapin" binder pages, are
even labelled by the manufacturer as being "'archival' quality." See
Appendix 3 for a guide to distinguishing between "DF Snapin" PVC pages
and "DF Snapin" poplypropylene pages.'


This discussion is much more gung ho on PVC


http://www.stamps.org/care/subp18.htm#pvc


'Even though it is one of our oldest and most successful plastics, in
use for scores of household products, PVC has been the brunt of
environmental and health criticisms and has been cited as destructive
to collectible postage stamps.


In fact, there are two different types of PVC, plasticized (pPVC) and
unplasticized (uPVC). pPVC is uPVC with plasticizers blended into it.
This makes it more flexible and it is often called "soft" or
"flexible" PVC. However, plasticizers are demonstrably bad for stamps.
uPVC is often called "hard" or "rigid" PVC and it appears to be
harmless to stamps. As Souder points out, the terms flexible/soft and
rigid/hard are confusing because they refer to the polymer blend and
not to products made from that polymer. Thus, highly flexible films
can be made from "rigid" uPVC.'


'In summary, modern pPVC shows major improvements over poorly
performing earlier versions. uPVC appears to be free of any problems
for stamp collectors, as far as tests conducted so far indicate. Even
so, Souder [1] is cautious to state that pPVC films should not be used
with stamps. Though today's plasticizers are much less likely to
migrate from their PVC blends onto stamps than earlier versions, the
potential is ever-present. Even a careful collector may inadvertently
subject a valuable collection to excess pressures and temperatures
that could simulate some damaging migration of the plasticizer onto
stamps.'


I.e. they conclude that uPVC is problem-free, but even pPVC is much
better than it was; this seems well-informed, can anyone contradict it?
>>



Are the issues the same for coins? Or are coins susceptible even where banknotes are not?

FWIW, mylar storage is not that readily available for banknotes. As I indicate above, major (expensive) banknote album manufacturers do use PVC.

And of course when you receive a coin in a 2x2, how do you know what plastic is made from?

newbiecollector

PVC will deteriate (sp) over time. It is the nature of the material.

I dont care what you may have in a PVC holder, you will have problems. On coins serious ones. On notes i am not sure but it will be sort of like green jello

thelawnet

<< <i>PVC will deteriate (sp) over time. It is the nature of the material.

I dont care what you may have in a PVC holder, you will have problems. On coins serious ones. On notes i am not sure but it will be sort of like green jello >>



This seems to be the plasticizers, which I mentioned above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_chloride#Phthalate_plasticizers

I'm pretty sure, from what I am reading, it is not the PVC itself that is the problem - it is the plasticizers (which make the plastic softer) leeching from the PVC.

This article agrees with that:

link

As for whether PVC can ever be truly 100% plasticizer I am not sure.

zeebob

Easy answer is to just buy the Saflip 2x2's (and 2.5"x2.5" and bill sized envelopes). They are made from Polyethylene Terephthalate (trade name Mylar(tm) ). They are archival quality and contain ZERO PVC and ZERO oils.

E&T Kointainer
Box 103
Sidney, OH 45365

I think they have a web presents but don't have URL handy. I have their phone number, but it's at home. They do have adverts in Coin World pretty regularly.

edited: "by" to "buy"

sumnom

Are the clear plastic pages that hold 2x2s made of PVC?

dan8402

<< <i>Are the clear plastic pages that hold 2x2s made of PVC? >>



I would assume that depends on the specific brand of the pages.

Aethelred

<< <i>Are the clear plastic pages that hold 2x2s made of PVC? >>



Most of them are, yes. I keep all of my non-slabs in 2x2 Safe-flips and also don't use any PVC products on any of the coins I sell.

BTW PVC will ruin currency as well. I have a CSA note that was ruined by the PVC holder it had been in for who knows how long. I assume the previous owner also didn't keep it in a proper location with regard to heat as that will often speed the breakdown process that Newbie mentioned above.

sumnom

Oh, this is unhappy news. I really like keeping my 2x2s in those plastic pages. What to do?

Kurt4

What about the polypropylene pages for 2x2'? I use them because they are advertised as "archival safe". Is this true?

Sapyx

<< <i>Oh, this is unhappy news. I really like keeping my 2x2s in those plastic pages. What to do? >>


Coins inside a 2x2 should be safe; the plasticizer rarely goes all the way through the 2x2 film.

Such solvent transfer will, however, make the outside of the 2x2 film turn "sticky" and hard to remove from the album page, especially if the albums are stacked or pressed together. You may have been to dealers or coin show booths where they hand you a screwdriver or piece of thick cardboard to assist you in prying sticky 2x2s out of their stockbooks. It's not a good look.

I use 2x2 pages that were designed for photographic slides (which are also 2x2 sized). These photo archive pages are made from stuff that's especially resistant to solvent transfer. After all, solvent transfer is a minor nuisance to a coin collector, but it would be ruinous to a slide. Slide technology is fast becoming obsolete, but you can still buy the pages at photographic supply shops.

1jester

Just say NO to PVC. It's NOT suitable even for short term storage. Avoid it like the plague.

Kudos to Aethelred for not using it in his trade; too many dealers use it thinking it's OK to use for short term, or they simply don't care about coins and customers, and want to make a few pennies.

Unless I know the provenance of a coin, I will give it an acetone bath just in order to remove the invariable PVC traces on so many coins.