could grading companies be a thing of the past ?
TheHun
Posts: 1,690
I've have read posts that show how well versed many of the collectors are here o CU. Some may even be sharper than the graders !
I'm not shouting "the sky is falling" but raw cards may be back in the picture as savy collectors will grade their own purchases.
Good luck - fake flips amok
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Comments
to do your homewaork and find out about who you are buying your cards from.
Always looking for Chipper Jones cards.
Im a very focused collector of cards from 1909 - 2012...LOL
<< <i>With most people getting thier collectables on the internet, grading is here to stay. >>
Ditto!
<< <i>With most people getting thier collectables on the internet, grading is here to stay. >>
Agreed. Grading co's aren't going anywhere, buyers just need to continue to educate themselves.
I agree. That way you know what you're bidding on -- no guessing necessary.
Unfortunately, we'll still have to put up with many sellers who write: This card is a PSA 7, but it has a great chance of getting a PSA 8 if you re-submit it. [Then why in-the-heck don't you re-submit it yourself!!]
my observations are partially based on the post here on CU.
So many posts about ebay ripoffs on GRADED cards.
In addition to grades coming back from the company unsatisfactory, there is still disagreements on what a graded card should have been or should be.
I think if you add up the number of complaints about card condition - they would be even or overtaken with dissatisfaction of GRADED cards. It seems to me you might as well save your money and just take the same risk by buying raw and getting them graded. (if you have time - add up the # of complains regarding GRADED cards on this BB alone)
How often do you see a thread where the card in question is accuratly graded?
Negativity is all you hear thus it seems to some that all are bad.
While grading does have certain drawbacks the positives far outweigh them.
Steve
Something will have to change in the future to counteract that. Frankly, if CU does it right, and has the money to do it right, they'll make a quick small fortune because basically all the current slabs would need to get reslabbed with the new "counterfeit proof" slab - it's all a comin' - just a question of when. If CU doesn't do it...somebody else will.
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That pretty much sums it up.
TPGs are here to stay; for the duration.
The TPGs do need to be MUCH more vigilant about helping to prevent/stop
counterfeit slabs and flips. I suspect those efforts will gain momentum.
Buyers do need to take a little time to learn to grade cards. It is NOT rocket
science; it is pretty straightforward. Simply reading and understanding the
PSA-guidelines is an excellent educator.
Grading coins, currency - even stamps - is MUCH more difficult to learn than
card grading is.
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Absolutely.
I just hope PSA understands the opportunity that is being presented.
If they don't, it will not take long before somebody else "gets it."
Knowing who you are buying from is a start, and yes I know even they could be scammed too.
Buy from trusted sources, even if they are priced higher, you know you are getting the real deal!
If you think a deal is to good to be true it is!
Steve
Stay Healthy!
Doug
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>"...Something will have to change in the future to counteract that. Frankly, if CU does it right, and has the money to do it right, they'll make a quick small fortune because basically all the current slabs would need to get reslabbed with the new "counterfeit proof" slab - it's all a comin' - just a question of when. If CU doesn't do it...somebody else will.."
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Absolutely.
I just hope PSA understands the opportunity that is being presented.
If they don't, it will not take long before somebody else "gets it." >>
I don't do nearly as much reading about this as you do Storm...so perhaps maybe this idea has already been presented out there, but my thoughts on the subject are that the days of displaying certification numbers to the public will one day be over. The "new system" will have to entail using a password system on the internet, perhaps and likely a website page for each card/coin slabbed. IE: You'll get a coin slabbed with a website page dedicated to that particular coin - if you sell it on ebay, not only will you be selling the card or coin, but the website page password and info that goes along with it which will have a system of some sort to verify the collectibles authenticity. Sort of like an online certificate of authenticity of some sort that can be verified by CU through a system of passwords - how that will be put together will take someone doing it who has a better imagination and understanding of how to do this than me.
Thanks for all the sincere input.
I certainly hope that the grading companies are not only listening, but instituting something to protect the collectors.
cheers
for sale - unless the cert is masked - crooks would simply
make their own data base of all the numbers listed. Making
certs totally private may not be terribly useful or necessary.
Crooks can also buy legit cards, crack the slab, insert a fake
card in a fake slab, along with the REAL flip.
Lots of folks also get some comfort from being able to look
up the number of the card that they are about to buy. That
benefit to sellers should probably not be killed just to stop
crooks, if there are other ways to thwart the criminals.
The most secure solution is likely going to rely on a new slab.
The slab will have security-measures built-in; similar to modern
currency. The slabs will also need to be made of materials that
turn to TOTAL caca once somebody tries to crack them.
Flips can also be printed/sealed in a way that preserves their
integrity ONLY as long as they are in their original slabs. They
can also contain embedded micro-printing and watermarks.
.........
As already noted above, the REAL problem is that fake cards
in fake slabs are soon likely going to FLOOD the market. The
fakes will be near perfect and will fool most collectors.
Making the old slabs redundant - and replacing all of them with
new and secure slabs - will temporarily secure the marketplace,
and will offer a new revenue stream for PSA.
Security features are NOT awfully expensive. PSA should be able
to at least double its money on the changeover. If they get there
first, they will also suck cards out of other TPGs' slabs.
I have ZERO inside info about what PSA is doing about the problems.
But, since I know for sure that fake flips/slabs are out there, it is
reasonable to suspect that PSA knows it, too. If I was calling the
shots, a search for solutions would be front and center, NOW.
........
Another vexing problem is that as the Chi-Coms perfect their printing
games, second and third tier graders will start slabbing the products.
The cards are NOT likely to make it past PSA's graders anytime soon,
but I have MUCH less confidence about the other TPGs' ability to "know
for sure."
This could give PSA even more opportunities to brand-enforce, if their
slabs/flips can be made as secure as their general grading is.
Last week on this board, there were some posts about what happened
when the counterfeit stamp problem got out of control. If I can find them,
I will post them here, later.
Obviously, stamps are easier to counterfeit than are cards. But, if the
crooks keep experimenting they are bound to get it right eventually.
....
Bottom line is that TPGs are here to stay, BUT they are going to have
to escalate their security efforts REAL SOON if they want to continue
to righteously claim "value added."
But, since I know for sure that fake flips/slabs are out there, it is
reasonable to suspect that PSA knows it, too.
From what I've read over at net 54 Joe is aware of it.
Steve
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Don't think for one moment this isn't a coordinated effort to damage our economy and unfortunately our government has adopted a policy of appeasment because the Chinese government is the single largest foreign holder of US debt.
for sale - unless the cert is masked - crooks would simply
make their own data base of all the numbers listed. Making
certs totally private may not be terribly useful or necessary. >>>
Well we'll see how it all pans out. My thoughts were along the lines of the certification number would only be divulged to the winning bidder, it would never be made public, and of course then the winning bidder would be given the password, etc., to the website page of the card to verify the card - this could even be done before payment depending on the particulars of the transaction, and all this info would now be the property of the new owner and of course the password would be changed by the new owner of the card.
Be interesting to read anything further you post about this - as always...thank you for the info!
As for Chinese counterfeiters, as long as they have their government backing, this type of thing can never be stopped.
PSA could try to make some high-tech slab for high-value cards, kind of like those "Secure ID" tokens that IT departments hand out so employees can securely log-in to their company servers. You know, the kind where there is an ever changing number. When a cert is checked, the current number on the embedded token would also have to be submitted. No match, no verification.
For low value cards, this isn't cost-effective, but low value cards aren't generally worth counterfeiting, just like how low value currency counterfeiting isn't a big concern. Low value cards can simply be slabbed just like they are now.
Another problem for scammers is that old auction images are now easily accessible indefinitely. The days of saving an image and waiting for it to disappear from ebay or an auction house are over. This seller got "caught" with counterfeit goods because someone saved past images, but you could accomplish the same thing with a few clicks on vcp.
I agree that the grading companies should take additional precautions, but we can make it more difficult for these bozos in the meantime.
Dave D.
Know who you are buying from!
Anyone can list cards for sale, not anyone can take my money.
Steve
Steve