1972P Ikes in MS66 revisited

khayse · February 17, 2002 12:52AM

Guys,

We had a discussion a couple months ago about where all
the 1972-P Ikes were and what types they were.

At the time I thought we had accounted for all 9. Since
then, Jim Moser bought one and in the last few days Jim
Barlow sold one in his newsletter. I can't go back and
search through the old forum thread because it seems it
only goes back to January. Here's what I remember:

Dennis Doeppenschmidt (1 type 3 and 1 type 2)
Gregory Samorajski (1 type 2)
James Sego (2, 1 type 3, 1 unknown)
(James doesn't actually admit to having two but his backup set has
one. Let's just go on the assumption he also has one in his real set).
Jim Moser (1 type 3)
Honeycutt (1, unknown type)
Mystery Guy (1 type 3)
Jim Barlow's customer Friday (unknown type but presumably type 3 or
it would have been advertised as a rarer type)

Can someone fill in anything I missed? Also does anyone
want to own up to buying the one from Barlow in the last
couple days?

-Keith H

Endocrinologist · February 17, 2002 2:47AM

I don't know about the 72P in MS66, but I did notice some last minute bidding on a type II 72P on Ebay the other day

. Both of us were out sniped.

Endo

Dennisl · February 17, 2002 3:08AM

You have me listed as owning a Type I and a Type III. What I have is a Type II and a Type III. Still looking for a Type I.

I also know that Greg's registry set 72 P is a Type II also.

Thanks, Dennis

khayse · February 17, 2002 6:33AM

Sorry Dennis. I've edited my earlier post.

-Keith H

khayse · February 17, 2002 6:39AM

Endo,

Hey, no one out-snipes me.
I was simply outbid

Jim Barlow had a few. I will probably buy one from him.

-Keith H

fantasiize · February 17, 2002 9:32AM

No words of wisdom to add, just saw all of the Ike icons on this post so I wanted to add one more ...

CJK · February 17, 2002 10:22AM

I still need one too!

khayse · February 17, 2002 10:31AM

Well, now you'll know who to make the offer to.

-Keith H

CJK · February 17, 2002 10:47AM

Keith, you are right, but I don't think these guys will want to sell...

keithdagen · February 18, 2002 12:03AM

Grrr....

I just moved so by the time the USPS forwards me Jim's list, all the good stuff will be gone.

And I even had some money to add a few pieces.

Keith

fantasiize · February 18, 2002 1:51AM

Is Jim Barlow in VA or TX ?

fantasiize · February 18, 2002 2:17AM

Reason that I ask is that I know Jim's company is Kennedy Center and that is in VA but I thought I may have seen somewhere he may have moved to TX.

Endocrinologist · February 18, 2002 3:20AM

My mailing from Jim is postmarked from VA.

I'm a little guy in the IKE world right now. I dont even get the mailing in color!

Endo

braddick · February 18, 2002 4:10AM

Endo- You know you've really moved up in the world when you start receiving Jim's coins with COLOR (zerox) inserts!
Of course, NOT getting his mailings at all is much worse!

fantasiize · February 18, 2002 10:51AM

But you are on the acme of the curve if you receive his catalog online (which will beat the guys physically receiving his catalog in the mail, even the preferred xerox colored catalogs).

Typetone · February 18, 2002 5:38PM

Hi Guys:

Just got back from a business trip, and I think I can shed some more light. You might recall about two months ago a fellow inquired on the Board as to the price of a 72 in 66 that he bought several years ago. I forgot his Board name. In any event, I have reason to believe that he sold that piece to Barlow who in turn sold it to Jim Moser. I believe that is the one Barlow referred to in his letter.

The 9th piece also is claimed to be in the hands of yet another Barlow mystery client. That fellow supposedly has almost a complete set of IKE Peac*ocks. This includes a Peac*ock 72 in PCGS MS66. So, lets just call Him Peac*ock IKE. That accounts for all nine I believe.

Greg

misterR · February 19, 2002 12:45AM

Check out the 72-p Ike PCGS 65 in Teletrade auction #1542, lot #1817. This coin would have made 66 2 or 3 years ago using PCGSs' looser grading. (Coin is imaged). Any comments? While you are there you might as well look at the 1976 CN half dollar in PCGS 67. (lot #1533)

emzee · February 19, 2002 4:45AM

I formerly owned a 1972p ms66 type 3 Ike which I sold via consignment to Jim Barlow last month. I believe it is listed under "mystery guy" on the original post.

Typetone · February 19, 2002 8:55AM

Hi Emzee:

Thanks for checking in. Actually, you are not the mystery guy. The mystery guy is a presumed client of Barlow's who has all the IKEs in PCGS finest graded. I presume that the 72 in 66 that you sold to Barlow was then sold by him to Jim Moser as he added his 72P shortly thereafter.

Typetone

segoja · February 19, 2002 10:03AM

Just checking in! How much did the 72-P on Jim's list go for??? You must assume that the coin is a type 3. I don't believe that a 72-P Type 1 in 66 exists. With the super low relief, PCGS just doesn't like them.

Keith, as for your count, you are very very close to the perfect tally, you are just missing one coin, but if I told you......got to go, for reading about the mystery is as good as the mystery itself!!!

Dennisl · February 19, 2002 10:10AM

Jim sold the coin for $5800.

segoja · February 19, 2002 11:46AM

Dennis,

What then does that make your Type 2 worth??? Sounds like the price of my set went up again!!!

Do you agree with me on the Type 1. I think that this is the single toughest coin in the series, but then again we are talking varieties.

Thanks!

James

supercoin · February 20, 2002 12:16AM

I'm out of town without my notes, but there is at least one Type 1, and possibly two, in MS66.

I agree the Type 1 is the toughest coin in the whole series to find in true gem condition and eye appeal, which isn't necessarily the same as how many make it into MS65 holders.

Or which will win the population war in MS66.

The Type 2 certainly comes much nicer than the Type 1 but there are far fewer to choose from.

It's difficult to draw too many hard conclusions from such a tiny population, especially given variations in grading over the years. And at least one of the Type 3s is seriously overgraded.

Dennisl · February 20, 2002 4:00AM

To my knowledge there are only 2 MS66 Type II coins graded by PCGS. One is in Greg's set and the other is in my set. If Supercoin is correct and there are 2 Type I coins in MS66 then they share the same Population of 2. I agree that the Type I is the more difficult coin to locate. I have been searching for one for a couple of years without success. I have never seen a Type I that I was even willing to submit to PCGS.

Typetone · February 20, 2002 5:09AM

I believe that Jim Sego, "Segoja" has a Type 1 in PCGS MS66. Jim is that true? I don't think I have ever heard that there is another.

Cheers

Greg

segoja · February 20, 2002 9:42AM

Greg,

I can't reveal the one coin that is missing, who owns it or what type it is, but I can assure you that it is not a Type 1. I'm still not convinced that there is a Type I. If you look through the list that Keith posted at first, he is one coin away from actuality (is that a word???), and we don't know which type the Honeycutt coin is. Unless the Honeycutt coin is a Type I, then there can't be a Type I.

Dennis/Greg, what do you value a Type 2 in 66 if the Type 3 is worth $5800. This may be one of those cases where the coin is too rare condition concensus wise for it's own good. Clearly it's worth more than the Type 3. From a rarity perspective I would venture that it is at least 20 X rarer than the Type 1 or Type 3, but it would never bring more than 50-75% more than the Type 3 in 66 at current levels.

James not Jim AKA "segoja"

Jim is my good buddy dealer friend in Norfolk, who is one of the BEST coin dealers I've dealt with in over 30 years of serious collecting.

jcping · February 20, 2002 1:23PM

My understanding for Type 2 is that the reverse die has
the same character as the 1971 Proof reverse die. That is,
when you look into the Cuba island, the island is incursive.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Can anyone enlighten me how to identify Type 1 and Type 3?

fantasiize · February 20, 2002 1:33PM

There are a few ways to distinguish the Type I from the Type III. One quick way is that for the Type I, the 3 islands shown are below and to the right of the Florida peninsula. The Type III has the islands below and to the left of the Florida peninsula. Depending on how good the strike is on the Type III, you can sometimes see 4 islands.

I think someone (probably Supercoin) had images of each of the three types

Endocrinologist · February 20, 2002 1:40PM

Here is a good way.

Take out the following IKES

1971-P Business (or1971-S 40%) Strike IKE = Type I (islands to the right of FLA)
1972-S Silver Proof IKE = Type II (incuse Islands)
1973-S Silver Proof IKE = Type III (islands under FLA)

Endo

Endocrinologist · February 20, 2002 1:52PM

Here's a pic of the type II islands

Type II Islands

keithdagen · February 20, 2002 2:36PM

I have a MS-65 Type 1 here. You can tell it's a Type 1 because it appears the earth is chopped off from 8 to 11.

If anyone is currently needing one, I am accepting offers on it.

Keith

khayse · February 20, 2002 11:47PM

James,
OK, now you're just taunting me

So the one Jim Moser bought was the one sold
from Barlow's latest newsletter. I didn't think
that was the case because Jim had his a couple weeks
before the newsletter came out. But that does explain
why there wasn't much hype for the coin in the newsletter
(something that REALLY confused me).

So I'm still one away from knowing where they all are.
James has some info. Maybe he could give a hint?

And we still need to find out which type Honeycutt has.
Anyone know anything about Honeycutt?

-Keith H

Typetone · February 21, 2002 12:48AM

Keith H et all:

If James has two then all nine are accounted for. Barlow has two mystery clients. One has a supposed finest graded set. The second has an almost complete set of Peac*ocks. Both have the 72P in 66. If James only has one then we don't know where the 9th is. Honeycutt's is almost certainly a type 3 (don't ask me how I know, but the source is good).

James, you are being cagey here. Do you own two? If you don't then you at least bought and sold a second, no? I believe you if you say its not a type 1, but I have a very good source who says there is a type 1, and your supposed second is the only place it could be.

As far as the type 2s value here's my view. There are only two, which Dennis and I own. The value is somewhere between whatever one of us would sell for and the best bid. Don't know what Dennis would sell for, but I could probably be tempted at $10K to $12K. Assume the bid is at least $6,000. That probably suggests a value of $8K to $10K. About what James thought.

TTFN

Greg

fantasiize · February 21, 2002 7:49AM

Wow ... with all of the BIG IKEster dogs out and about in this thread, I think I am going to go sit on the porch and watch the posts accumulate in this thread ...

khayse · February 23, 2002 12:59AM

Greg,

Has Barlow told you whether the second mystery person has a type 3?
(I've been told the first mystery person has a type 3)
Both you and James seem to know the contents of the mystery people's
collections. James says, "Unless the Honeycutt coin is a Type I, then
there can't be a Type I." That implies he doesn't have one.

Greg, can you and Tad get together and play "I'll show you mine
if you show me yours" (notes, sources, etc)? Your info seems to
be in direct contradiction to each other.

Hey Tad, how about a peek at those notes?

I'm so close to Ike-actualization.

-Keith H

segoja · February 23, 2002 2:31AM

Let's go back and review Keith's initail assumptions.

Dennis has 2 66's, one type 2 and one type 3

Greg has one type 2

Mooser has one type 3

Honeycutt has one we assume Type 3

Sego has one or two one for sure type 3. He has not sold seen or own a type 2 or type1 in 66

Mystery Guy #1 one Type 3

Mystery Guy #2 one unknown type (This must be the PKOK 66 that Bob Halstead writes about in "The Authoritative Reference on Eisenhower Dollars") By the way, Jim B and myself helped with this book.

Then we have Jim's sale recently. Could this have been Mooser's coin and we are double counting. His set was upgraded about that time. Seems strange that two of the 9 66's are sold in the same month and no one knows about it. I make the assupmtion that there was only one coin. Seems there are enough threads that make this a fact.

Then we have the coin that someone swears is a Type 1 in 66. If this is the case then we have 10 coins. Could the PKOK coin be a Type 1. Does anyone know this??? Jim Barlow is checking with the "PKOK Mystery Guy"

Could it also be that a coin has been in twice??? Love to hear any comments on that.

For the guy who needs to differentiate the different types. The easy way to pick Type 1, is that it is low relief on the reverse. Both the Type 2 and Type 3 are high relief just like the 73-78 Ikes.

Guys, I'm not trying to be cagey or with hold information. If people ask me to keep information in confidence, then I respect their decision and do it. I would do the same for all of you as well.

Dennisl · February 24, 2002 12:29AM

Keith,
I have bought many coins from Jim Barlow prior to his sheet being mailed out. Jim has a long list of serious collectors and most top coins are sold way before the sheet even comes out. Jim has asked me if I mind if the picture and price were left on the sheet so people would know the quality of the coins he is selling. Just because Jim Moser had his piece prior to the mailing does not mean that it is not the same piece.

I can also say that one of Jim's mystery collectors does not have a Type II and needed the Type II that I currently own. Jim " accidentally" sold me the coin before he realized that it was on the mystery collector's want list. He also said that this mystery collector had a Type III.

The other question I have is whether the Pop is correct. I can give you an example where the Pop was previously listed as 3 on one of the Ike Dollars when in actuality the Pop was 1. I purchased two of the three coins and both of the coins I purchased were mislabeled. I returned both coins to the people that I purchased them from. One was sent back to PCGS and the Pop was dropped down to 2. The Pop may say 2 but I know for a fact that the Pop is 1. Sometimes coins are not added into the Pop or are added in wrong place due to human error. We are all making the assumption that the Pop is correct and accurate. I now longer make that assumption.

khayse · February 24, 2002 2:44AM

> Jim has asked me if I mind if the picture and price were left on the > sheet so people would know the quality of the coins he is selling.

Dennis, thanks for the info. I knew he sold stuff before the list
comes out, I just didn't know he left the item on the list. Good to know.

It's always good to question our assumptions but I think we've
accounted for all 9 pieces, so I would assume the population is right.

The only items we need to reconcile/verify:
Supercoin says that there is a type 1 in 66
Typetone says that it's not Honeycutt
James S says that unless the Honeycutt coin is a Type I, then there can't be a Type I.

I guess when Jim Barlow hears back from PKOK Ike, we will know.

-Keith H

fantasiize · February 28, 2002 2:07PM

ttt for the Ike Club

1972P Ikes in MS66 revisited

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