<< <i>I guess it's apropo. Look at the coinage of socialist countries during the early 1900's with wheat chaffs, corn, grain, workers in the field... We are headed that way. Note: I wouldn't equate our Lincoln/Wheat cent in this group, don't misunderstand me.
This is a product of self-loathing Americans at the helm. Look at the design of next years Platinum coinage.
During the last turn of the century our coinage was full of guilt, we paid homage to Indians on many coins and currency. And this was to pay tribute? No, it was guilt speaking. What was done to Indians nations was terrible to say the least.
I think we are seeing it again but maybe this time it's more a global guilt by these new generations of self-loathers.
We need to get back to simple Liberty/Eagle designs that define our country instead of these Politically Correct Political Coins.
Ren >>
You wanna drive a horse and buggy also. Or, just plain walk 18 miles to work every day like my grandfather did? >>
As Yoda would say, "No sense you make." Or as a former squadron mate use to say, "do you walk to school, or take a lunch?"
Ren >>
As Ken would say, "you talk like a person with head up ass." >>
Ken, I laughed so hard! I thought you were a stick-in-the-mud. That was funny. And the farming thingy, I and my family have been doing that going back 250 years in this country and the "old" country. And, yes, I do my own backbreaking work. The depiction on the coin is just silly on so many accounts.
<< <i>"The corn is already up, what do suppose she's planting? Are those goards?"
Native Americans were very wise farmers, they used the gourds or squash to shade the root system of the corn, then they would allow pole beans to grow on the corn stalks. The seeds she is planting I would think are pole beans.
I guess it's apropos [sic]. Look at the coinage of socialist countries during the early 1900's with wheat chaffs, corn, grain, workers in the field... We are headed that way. Note: I wouldn't equate our Lincoln/Wheat cent in this group, don't misunderstand me.
Can you identify these “socialist countries during the early 1900's,” please?
As for agriculture – it has been a pervasive theme of medals and coins for a long time. There is a tendency for societies to value farmers and others who supply food – maybe it is due to an overabundance of bucolic nostalgia now. After all, agribusiness does not mesh well with the democratic idealized myth of the yeoman farmer/citizen militia.
Re: During the last turn of the century our coinage was full of guilt, we paid homage to Indians on many coins and currency. And this was to pay tribute? No, it was guilt speaking. What was done to Indians’ nations was terrible to say the least.
Agreed…and a dime-novel ignorance presented as caricatures. Sculptures by Jim Fraser and possibly Hermon MacNeil were among the few that rose above the trite and self serving.
<< <i>I guess it's apropos [sic]. Look at the coinage of socialist countries during the early 1900's with wheat chaffs, corn, grain, workers in the field... We are headed that way. Note: I wouldn't equate our Lincoln/Wheat cent in this group, don't misunderstand me.
Can you identify these “socialist countries during the early 1900's,” please?
As for agriculture – it has been a pervasive theme of medals and coins for a long time. There is a tendency for societies to value farmers and others who supply food – maybe it is due to an overabundance of bucolic nostalgia now. After all, agribusiness does not mesh well with the democratic idealized myth of the yeoman farmer/citizen militia.
Re: During the last turn of the century our coinage was full of guilt, we paid homage to Indians on many coins and currency. And this was to pay tribute? No, it was guilt speaking. What was done to Indians’ nations was terrible to say the least.
Agreed…and a dime-novel ignorance presented as caricatures. Sculptures by Jim Fraser and possibly Hermon MacNeil were among the few that rose above the trite and self serving. >>
With no disrespect to anyone, but understanding that no race is without admiration, the Indians (if you know history) were savages. That's not to say they were bad, they were what they were. Please read books of the early eastern tribes. Noble in some respects, but brutal and savage.
Nearly every recorded human culture has its elements of savagery, brutality and superstition, especially when viewed from one which supposes itself superior in all ways. The most pervasive, and nearly world wide, are those associated with the joys of sectarian dismemberment practiced by one group of “chosen ones” against another group of “chosen ones.” There is also the happy blending with superstition that gives rise to dunking witches, burning heretics, or slicing people to bits because we view them as “savages.” When given a political gloss, and some spit and polish from brass-minded egoists, these simple human pleasures can be attached to noble noises and triumphant banners unfurled in the breeze.
The physician’s prime directive, “First, do no harm,” is the key to a greater, much forgotten directive: “Treat all others as you wish to be treated.”
Maybe reading Alan Trachtenberg’s comments in his article “Wanamaker Indians” will help. In this excerpt he is describing the grand ceremony and ground breaking for the National American Indian Memorial at Fort Wadsworth, on Staten Island, New York. (This is where the Buffalo nickel made its public debut):
“…the President took a golden shovel and broke the earth. He was followed by Hollow Horn Bear (Yankton Sioux) who briefly addressed the crowd, and then joined the President in digging the ground with the thigh bone of a buffalo. Mountain Chief (Blackfeet) then lead the assembled Native group in a tribal “War Song.” The United States flag was then raised to “The Indian’s Requiem,” a piece of “original Indian music” composed by Dr. Irving J. Morgan for use during lectures given by [Dr. Joseph] Dixon, [one of the monument’s promoters].
“When the flag was fully raised, Morgan’s song faded into a military rendition of the 'Star Spangled Banner,' which signified 'the union of the first dwellers on the soil with the civilization of our day.' Doctor George Frederick Kunz, President of the American Scenic and Historical Preservation Society, then presented a bronze plaque marking the site. The President gave each of the chiefs a copy of James E. Fraser’s new 'Buffalo nickel,' after which the crowd recessed to Hail, Columbia! The groundbreaking ceremony was both a monument to the progress of Euro-American civilization, the empire which built the Wanamaker business, but also a somewhat hollow attempt to rectify the injustice of Native peoples.
“…the Memorial, was far more symbolic than it was real; there was never a promise of citizenship in the document, only an expressed hope. American Indians were handed, at the groundbreaking, their own eulogy and had their own requiem written for them. It may have made the most sense, for the tribal leaders in attendance, to nod their heads and tell the White audience what they so desired to hear. Red Cloud, speaking of his father, Red Cloud, who 'has been a great fighter against the Indians, and against the white man, but he learned years ago to stop fighting...' and perhaps a peaceful if not invisible identity was the only means to maintain any sense of Native identity.”
After quoting Dr. Trachtenberg, I noted in Renaissance of American Coinage 1909-1915: “The monument was never built – Dixon raised only $143 in donations – and after a generation, no one could locate the bronze plaque or recall why the monument was never built. The site was later appropriated for bridge abutments honoring an Italian explorer, Verrazano.
"With an impressive ceremony completed, the Indians must have thought the nickels were a special token made for the event and might have thought of the memorial with promise. But like most of the Great White Father’s earlier promises to respect the Indians’ customs and land, what the chiefs carried in their hands was all anyone had for them. Shorn of dignity and fundamental faith by paternalistic bureaucrats and dishonest Indian Agents, the new nickels bore no new promise to a disenfranchised people. Fraser, Frederic Sackrider Remington, Charles Marion Russell, Hermon MacNeil, A. Phimister Proctor and a herd of lesser craftsmen saw the Indian as a defeated anachronism, as close to extinction as the great plains bison. Something to be memorialized but not understood; honored only on terms of defeat."
<< <i>I guess the "classic" Sacs are a complete set now, 2000-2008.
Just like the "classic" Jefferson nickels, 1938-2003, the "classic" Washington quarters, 1932-1998 - and the soon-to-be-classic Lincoln Memorial cents, 1959-2008. >>
<< <i>Re: During the last turn of the century our coinage was full of guilt, we paid homage to Indians on many coins and currency. And this was to pay tribute? No, it was guilt speaking. What was done to Indians’ nations was terrible to say the least.
Agreed…and a dime-novel ignorance presented as caricatures. Sculptures by Jim Fraser and possibly Hermon MacNeil were among the few that rose above the trite and self serving. >>
Don't forget Bela Lyon Pratt. His depiction of an Indian chief on the $2 1/2 and $5 gold pieces appears to be quite accurate.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Re: During the last turn of the century our coinage was full of guilt, we paid homage to Indians on many coins and currency. And this was to pay tribute? No, it was guilt speaking. What was done to Indians’ nations was terrible to say the least.
Agreed…and a dime-novel ignorance presented as caricatures. Sculptures by Jim Fraser and possibly Hermon MacNeil were among the few that rose above the trite and self serving. >>
Don't forget Bela Lyon Pratt. His depiction of an Indian chief on the $2 1/2 and $5 gold pieces appears to be quite accurate. >>
Not so. I met an Indian chief once and he was not incuse!
<< <i>I guess it's apropos [sic]. Look at the coinage of socialist countries during the early 1900's with wheat chaffs, corn, grain, workers in the field... We are headed that way. Note: I wouldn't equate our Lincoln/Wheat cent in this group, don't misunderstand me.
Can you identify these “socialist countries during the early 1900's,” please?. >>
There are some historically interesting coins illustrated, but except for the Soviet pieces, everything else is from non-socialist governments, or was issued much later than noted in the original post. It seems quite a stretch to call the 1930s and later “…early 1900s.” You might squeeze in the early Soviet coinage from 1922 and 1924 since they feature farmers and workers on the reverses. But the 1940s-50s is a few decades off. The 1930s Italian government was a constitutional monarchy followed by Mussolini’s Fascist, not socialist, regime. The Polish 2 Zloty dates from the 1950s under their communist government; the French 2 Fr dates from 1943-44 issued by the Vichy government and hardly socialist. The two German coins date from the end of the Weimar Republic, which was not a socialist government, and the beginning of Hitler’s Nazi Third Reich – decidedly not socialist.
Most countries had some representation of agriculture on their coins, as another poster noted, including nearly all US coins as part of wreaths, headgear, etc. Possibly the most well known agricultural figure of another country is Marianne (“the Sower”) on French republic coinage; also the French rooster. (The Soviets imitated her on their 1923 Chervonetz 10 ruble gold, with a male sower of wheat.) Neither have any association with socialism any more than wheat and cotton stuck in Liberty’s hair of the Morgan dollar do.
Here’s a French agricultural product (non socialist) attacking a German soldier – 1915 fund raising poster.
The worker-farmer theme was common on medals and in illustrations from the WW-1 period through the Art Deco 1930s, but there was nothing socialistic about most of the uses. These themes have, in reality, little to do with political systems and relate more to basic necessities and symbols of prosperity. Here’s an image that many might easily associate with either socialist or Fascist political systems.
Yet the sculpture is intended to honor American soldiers. It is by American Robert Aitken for a WW-1 memorial, 1921. The Art Deco style was just at the beginning of its popularity then.
<< <i>With no disrespect to anyone, but understanding that no race is without admiration, the Indians (if you know history) were savages. That's not to say they were bad, they were what they were. Please read books of the early eastern tribes. Noble in some respects, but brutal and savage. >>
How ignorant is this statement? They were what they were!!! And if you believe absolutely everything you read in a book, then your belief system needs updating.
It's unbelievable how some of you bemoan the politicization of coin designs while making your own political statement. There's nothing self-loathing about commemoration of the indians nor the interpretation of the preamble of the Constitution on next year's platinum coins. Indians have been used as a symbol of this country predating the existence of the United States and the only difference over time has been the accuracy in their depiction. There is nothing guilt ridden in any of these current or past designs. I second calling out the ignorance of the statment of the 'savages' comment. The true nature of things is too complex to describe in a brief message such as these. Comments such as those do not belong on these boards.
The design is symbolic of agriculture, and can't be taken as a literal depiction of how it was done. I doubt it's going to look any better than the presidential dollars due to being in low relief.
If we want to pay homage to our native americans there are hundreds of historically accurate pictures and paintings from the mid to late 19th century to use as a guide. These show a proud and unique people.
This design looks like a page torn from a third graders politically correct american heritage book.
With no disrespect to anyone, but understanding that no race is without admiration, the Indians (if you know history) were savages. That's not to say they were bad, they were what they were. Please read books of the early eastern tribes. Noble in some respects, but brutal and savage.
The early Spaniards were pretty brutal and savage too.
I think I know history and I'd have to say you are dead wrong.
Were some 'savages' sure, were the vast majority peaceful? Probably.
<< <i>With no disrespect to anyone, but understanding that no race is without admiration, the Indians (if you know history) were savages. That's not to say they were bad, they were what they were. Please read books of the early eastern tribes. Noble in some respects, but brutal and savage.
The early Spaniards were pretty brutal and savage too.
I think I know history and I'd have to say you are dead wrong.
Were some 'savages' sure, were the vast majority peaceful? Probably.
Steve >>
Thank you Steve. It is the concept of "Noble Savage" that makes them greater than they are. The early Eastern Tribes present a fascinating read. I meant no disrespect, but to touch base with the truth. Mike
I took the early 1900's comment to mean before 1950 but I can see how it could be taken as 1930 or earlier. Also, I took his socalist comment in general. Communists and Facists are socalists so coinage from those countries would fit the definition. To make the point, let me address one quote.
<< <i>and the beginning of Hitler’s Nazi Third Reich – decidedly not socialist. . >>
Nazi is nothing more than an abbreviation of "National Socialism" in German. Check the wikipedia entry for more info.
<< <i>I took the early 1900's comment to mean before 1950 but I can see how it could be taken as 1930 or earlier. Also, I took his socalist comment in general. Communists and Facists are socalists so coinage from those countries would fit the definition. To make the point, let me address one quote.
<< <i>and the beginning of Hitler’s Nazi Third Reich – decidedly not socialist. . >>
Nazi is nothing more than an abbreviation of "National Socialism" in German. Check the wikipedia entry for more info. >>
NSDAP abbrevation of the party where the term Nazi is derived. NSDAP, (translation) National Socialist German Workers Party.
Communists and Facists [sic] are socalists [sic] so coinage from those countries would fit the definition.
Mmmm….. What can one say? The above statement borders on the ludicrous.
As for Adolph Hitler’s fun loving National Socialist German Workers’ Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei – NSDAP, commonly called Nazi) – they found great amusement in enslaving, torturing and murdering communists, socialists and other “-ists” along with other “volk” who happened to disagree with party philosophy.
<< <i> Communists and Facists [sic] are socalists [sic] so coinage from those countries would fit the definition.
Mmmm….. What can one say? The above statement borders on the ludicrous.
As for Adolph Hitler’s fun loving National Socialist German Workers’ Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei – NSDAP, commonly called Nazi) – they found great amusement in enslaving, torturing and murdering communists, socialists and other “-ists” along with other “volk” who happened to disagree with party philosophy. >>
I didn't say Fascists are Communists. I said they're both socialists. You were so busy looking for spelling errors you forgot reading comprehension.
Difference? I'll give you an obvious one (among several). Fascist: Privately owned, government controlled. Communist: government owned, government controlled. The government controlled part (redistribution, regulation, egalitarianism, etc.) makes both philosophies socialist.
Comments
<< <i>I wish we had a "Whiners Forum."
Lonely?
<< <i>
<< <i>I wish we had a "Whiners Forum."
Lonely? >>
No, but the people that post all the "whining" threads must be.
Why don't you go kill something, I'm sure you will feel better..."-)
Currently Listed: Nothing
Take Care, Dave
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I guess it's apropo. Look at the coinage of socialist countries during the early 1900's with wheat chaffs, corn, grain, workers in the field... We are headed that way. Note: I wouldn't equate our Lincoln/Wheat cent in this group, don't misunderstand me.
This is a product of self-loathing Americans at the helm. Look at the design of next years Platinum coinage.
During the last turn of the century our coinage was full of guilt, we paid homage to Indians on many coins and currency. And this was to pay tribute? No, it was guilt speaking. What was done to Indians nations was terrible to say the least.
I think we are seeing it again but maybe this time it's more a global guilt by these new generations of self-loathers.
We need to get back to simple Liberty/Eagle designs that define our country instead of these Politically Correct Political Coins.
Ren >>
You wanna drive a horse and buggy also. Or, just plain walk 18 miles to work every day like my grandfather did? >>
As Yoda would say, "No sense you make." Or as a former squadron mate use to say, "do you walk to school, or take a lunch?"
Ren >>
As Ken would say, "you talk like a person with head up ass." >>
Ken, I laughed so hard! I thought you were a stick-in-the-mud. That was funny.
And the farming thingy, I and my family have been doing that going back 250 years in this country and the "old" country. And, yes, I do my own backbreaking work. The depiction on the coin is just silly on so many accounts.
Ren
<< <i>I wish we had a "Whiners Forum."
Why don't you start one since you are the head cheese!
<< <i>"The corn is already up, what do suppose she's planting? Are those goards?"
Native Americans were very wise farmers, they used the gourds or squash to shade the root system
of the corn, then they would allow pole beans to grow on the corn stalks. The seeds she is planting
I would think are pole beans.
Steve >>
Nice catch Steve. And you are right.
Ren
Can you identify these “socialist countries during the early 1900's,” please?
As for agriculture – it has been a pervasive theme of medals and coins for a long time. There is a tendency for societies to value farmers and others who supply food – maybe it is due to an overabundance of bucolic nostalgia now. After all, agribusiness does not mesh well with the democratic idealized myth of the yeoman farmer/citizen militia.
Re: During the last turn of the century our coinage was full of guilt, we paid homage to Indians on many coins and currency. And this was to pay tribute? No, it was guilt speaking. What was done to Indians’ nations was terrible to say the least.
Agreed…and a dime-novel ignorance presented as caricatures. Sculptures by Jim Fraser and possibly Hermon MacNeil were among the few that rose above the trite and self serving.
<< <i>I guess it's apropos [sic]. Look at the coinage of socialist countries during the early 1900's with wheat chaffs, corn, grain, workers in the field... We are headed that way. Note: I wouldn't equate our Lincoln/Wheat cent in this group, don't misunderstand me.
Can you identify these “socialist countries during the early 1900's,” please?
As for agriculture – it has been a pervasive theme of medals and coins for a long time. There is a tendency for societies to value farmers and others who supply food – maybe it is due to an overabundance of bucolic nostalgia now. After all, agribusiness does not mesh well with the democratic idealized myth of the yeoman farmer/citizen militia.
Re: During the last turn of the century our coinage was full of guilt, we paid homage to Indians on many coins and currency. And this was to pay tribute? No, it was guilt speaking. What was done to Indians’ nations was terrible to say the least.
Agreed…and a dime-novel ignorance presented as caricatures. Sculptures by Jim Fraser and possibly Hermon MacNeil were among the few that rose above the trite and self serving. >>
RWB=YNH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RWB = yeoman numismatic historian!!!
I feel better now!!!!
The physician’s prime directive, “First, do no harm,” is the key to a greater, much forgotten directive: “Treat all others as you wish to be treated.”
Maybe reading Alan Trachtenberg’s comments in his article “Wanamaker Indians” will help. In this excerpt he is describing the grand ceremony and ground breaking for the National American Indian Memorial at Fort Wadsworth, on Staten Island, New York. (This is where the Buffalo nickel made its public debut):
“…the President took a golden shovel and broke the earth. He was followed by Hollow Horn Bear (Yankton Sioux) who briefly addressed the crowd, and then joined the President in digging the ground with the thigh bone of a buffalo. Mountain Chief (Blackfeet) then lead the assembled Native group in a tribal “War Song.” The United States flag was then raised to “The Indian’s Requiem,” a piece of “original Indian music” composed by Dr. Irving J. Morgan for use during lectures given by [Dr. Joseph] Dixon, [one of the monument’s promoters].
“When the flag was fully raised, Morgan’s song faded into a military rendition of the 'Star Spangled Banner,' which signified 'the union of the first dwellers on the soil with the civilization of our day.' Doctor George Frederick Kunz, President of the American Scenic and Historical Preservation Society, then presented a bronze plaque marking the site. The President gave each of the chiefs a copy of James E. Fraser’s new 'Buffalo nickel,' after which the crowd recessed to Hail, Columbia! The groundbreaking ceremony was both a monument to the progress of Euro-American civilization, the empire which built the Wanamaker business, but also a somewhat hollow attempt to rectify the injustice of Native peoples.
“…the Memorial, was far more symbolic than it was real; there was never a promise of citizenship in the document, only an expressed hope. American Indians were handed, at the groundbreaking, their own eulogy and had their own requiem written for them. It may have made the most sense, for the tribal leaders in attendance, to nod their heads and tell the White audience what they so desired to hear. Red Cloud, speaking of his father, Red Cloud, who 'has been a great fighter against the Indians, and against the white man, but he learned years ago to stop fighting...' and perhaps a peaceful if not invisible identity was the only means to maintain any sense of Native identity.”
After quoting Dr. Trachtenberg, I noted in Renaissance of American Coinage 1909-1915: “The monument was never built – Dixon raised only $143 in donations – and after a generation, no one could locate the bronze plaque or recall why the monument was never built. The site was later appropriated for bridge abutments honoring an Italian explorer, Verrazano.
"With an impressive ceremony completed, the Indians must have thought the nickels were a special token made for the event and might have thought of the memorial with promise. But like most of the Great White Father’s earlier promises to respect the Indians’ customs and land, what the chiefs carried in their hands was all anyone had for them. Shorn of dignity and fundamental faith by paternalistic bureaucrats and dishonest Indian Agents, the new nickels bore no new promise to a disenfranchised people. Fraser, Frederic Sackrider Remington, Charles Marion Russell, Hermon MacNeil, A. Phimister Proctor and a herd of lesser craftsmen saw the Indian as a defeated anachronism, as close to extinction as the great plains bison. Something to be memorialized but not understood; honored only on terms of defeat."
<< <i>I guess the "classic" Sacs are a complete set now, 2000-2008.
Just like the "classic" Jefferson nickels, 1938-2003, the "classic" Washington quarters, 1932-1998 - and the soon-to-be-classic Lincoln Memorial cents, 1959-2008. >>
Indeed. My sac set is complete.
<< <i>Re: During the last turn of the century our coinage was full of guilt, we paid homage to Indians on many coins and currency. And this was to pay tribute? No, it was guilt speaking. What was done to Indians’ nations was terrible to say the least.
Agreed…and a dime-novel ignorance presented as caricatures. Sculptures by Jim Fraser and possibly Hermon MacNeil were among the few that rose above the trite and self serving. >>
Don't forget Bela Lyon Pratt. His depiction of an Indian chief on the $2 1/2 and $5 gold pieces appears to be quite accurate.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>Re: During the last turn of the century our coinage was full of guilt, we paid homage to Indians on many coins and currency. And this was to pay tribute? No, it was guilt speaking. What was done to Indians’ nations was terrible to say the least.
Agreed…and a dime-novel ignorance presented as caricatures. Sculptures by Jim Fraser and possibly Hermon MacNeil were among the few that rose above the trite and self serving. >>
Don't forget Bela Lyon Pratt. His depiction of an Indian chief on the $2 1/2 and $5 gold pieces appears to be quite accurate. >>
Not so. I met an Indian chief once and he was not incuse!
<< <i>I guess it's apropos [sic]. Look at the coinage of socialist countries during the early 1900's with wheat chaffs, corn, grain, workers in the field... We are headed that way. Note: I wouldn't equate our Lincoln/Wheat cent in this group, don't misunderstand me.
Can you identify these “socialist countries during the early 1900's,” please?. >>
flying eagle cent, 1856-1858
cent, 1909-1958
two cents, 1864-1873
five cents, 1883-1913
half dime, 1860-1873
dime, 1860-1916
Georgia quarter, 1999
Vermont quarter 2001
Arkansas quarter, 2003
Wisconsin quarter, 2004
South Dakota quarter, 2006
trade dollar, 1873-1885
gold dollar, 1854-1889
three dollars, 1854-1889
Did I leave any out?
There are some historically interesting coins illustrated, but except for the Soviet pieces, everything else is from non-socialist governments, or was issued much later than noted in the original post. It seems quite a stretch to call the 1930s and later “…early 1900s.” You might squeeze in the early Soviet coinage from 1922 and 1924 since they feature farmers and workers on the reverses. But the 1940s-50s is a few decades off. The 1930s Italian government was a constitutional monarchy followed by Mussolini’s Fascist, not socialist, regime. The Polish 2 Zloty dates from the 1950s under their communist government; the French 2 Fr dates from 1943-44 issued by the Vichy government and hardly socialist. The two German coins date from the end of the Weimar Republic, which was not a socialist government, and the beginning of Hitler’s Nazi Third Reich – decidedly not socialist.
Most countries had some representation of agriculture on their coins, as another poster noted, including nearly all US coins as part of wreaths, headgear, etc. Possibly the most well known agricultural figure of another country is Marianne (“the Sower”) on French republic coinage; also the French rooster. (The Soviets imitated her on their 1923 Chervonetz 10 ruble gold, with a male sower of wheat.) Neither have any association with socialism any more than wheat and cotton stuck in Liberty’s hair of the Morgan dollar do.
Here’s a French agricultural product (non socialist) attacking a German soldier – 1915 fund raising poster.
The worker-farmer theme was common on medals and in illustrations from the WW-1 period through the Art Deco 1930s, but there was nothing socialistic about most of the uses. These themes have, in reality, little to do with political systems and relate more to basic necessities and symbols of prosperity. Here’s an image that many might easily associate with either socialist or Fascist political systems.
Yet the sculpture is intended to honor American soldiers. It is by American Robert Aitken for a WW-1 memorial, 1921. The Art Deco style was just at the beginning of its popularity then.
<< <i>With no disrespect to anyone, but understanding that no race is without admiration, the Indians (if you know history) were savages. That's not to say they were bad, they were what they were. Please read books of the early eastern tribes. Noble in some respects, but brutal and savage. >>
How ignorant is this statement? They were what they were!!! And if you believe absolutely everything you read in a book, then your belief system needs updating.
The design is symbolic of agriculture, and can't be taken as a literal depiction of how it was done. I doubt it's going to look any better than the presidential dollars due to being in low relief.
This design looks like a page torn from a third graders politically correct american heritage book.
The early Spaniards were pretty brutal and savage too.
I think I know history and I'd have to say you are dead wrong.
Were some 'savages' sure, were the vast majority peaceful? Probably.
Steve
<< <i>With no disrespect to anyone, but understanding that no race is without admiration, the Indians (if you know history) were savages. That's not to say they were bad, they were what they were. Please read books of the early eastern tribes. Noble in some respects, but brutal and savage.
The early Spaniards were pretty brutal and savage too.
I think I know history and I'd have to say you are dead wrong.
Were some 'savages' sure, were the vast majority peaceful? Probably.
Steve >>
Thank you Steve. It is the concept of "Noble Savage" that makes them greater than they are. The early Eastern Tribes present a fascinating read. I meant no disrespect, but to touch base with the truth. Mike
It's unfortunate that it is replacing a beautiful eagle that graced Sac's reverse for 9 years, but I can live with this one in my album next year.
<< <i>and the beginning of Hitler’s Nazi Third Reich – decidedly not socialist.
. >>
Nazi is nothing more than an abbreviation of "National Socialism" in German. Check the wikipedia entry for more info.
<< <i>I took the early 1900's comment to mean before 1950 but I can see how it could be taken as 1930 or earlier. Also, I took his socalist comment in general. Communists and Facists are socalists so coinage from those countries would fit the definition. To make the point, let me address one quote.
<< <i>and the beginning of Hitler’s Nazi Third Reich – decidedly not socialist.
. >>
Nazi is nothing more than an abbreviation of "National Socialism" in German. Check the wikipedia entry for more info. >>
NSDAP abbrevation of the party where the term Nazi is derived. NSDAP, (translation) National Socialist German Workers Party.
Mmmm….. What can one say? The above statement borders on the ludicrous.
As for Adolph Hitler’s fun loving National Socialist German Workers’ Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei – NSDAP, commonly called Nazi) – they found great amusement in enslaving, torturing and murdering communists, socialists and other “-ists” along with other “volk” who happened to disagree with party philosophy.
<< <i> Communists and Facists [sic] are socalists [sic] so coinage from those countries would fit the definition.
Mmmm….. What can one say? The above statement borders on the ludicrous.
As for Adolph Hitler’s fun loving National Socialist German Workers’ Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei – NSDAP, commonly called Nazi) – they found great amusement in enslaving, torturing and murdering communists, socialists and other “-ists” along with other “volk” who happened to disagree with party philosophy. >>
I didn't say Fascists are Communists. I said they're both socialists. You were so busy looking for spelling errors you forgot reading comprehension.
Difference? I'll give you an obvious one (among several). Fascist: Privately owned, government controlled. Communist: government owned, government controlled. The government controlled part (redistribution, regulation, egalitarianism, etc.) makes both philosophies socialist.