Circulated or Worn 1910 MPL?

chrsb

Long time reader looking for some of the MPL matte head thoughts, what are the chances this is a circulated or worn MPL? I found this among some cents I was going through and
it was labeled 1910 MPL.




Thanks for any thoughts in advance!

ambro51

Lets see a shot of it edge on. Looks pretty good so far!

renomedphys

It has the depression under the second 1 in 1910. I thought that was a matte only thing, but I could be wrong. Any die gouges near the rim above IGWT, or near 2:30 onthe obverse? A die polish marker in the shape of an X under the UM in UNUM on the reverse? It sure would be neat to have a circulated matte in a PCGS holder.

robec

It seems to have nice wide rims. Any chance of getting a side shot of the rim and also maybe a larger image?

chrsb

Let me see if I can dig up the raw images I took of this one. I would take some pics of the edges but I already packaged it up and sent it in for my free grading. Thanks for the input so far, this would go nice with my 1911 MPL I got!

ambro51

1910 is one of those years where the granularity is really is strong. It should really jump out at you under a loupe.

BWRC

From your image I say NO MPL

BWRC

<< <i>Long time reader looking for some of the MPL matte head thoughts, what are the chances this is a circulated or worn MPL? I found this among some cents I was going through and
it was labeled 1910 MPL.

Check out the razor sharp detail on the real MPL image. The letters in the word "ONE CENT" are chisiled. Look at the difference in the "O" in ONE CENT. Look where the fields meet the rim at 6 O'Clock on the MS vs the MPL (very beveled on the MS coin)

Obverse lacks detail, Lincolns hair, beard, appears to have no granularity.

renomedphys

I agree with Brian. On closer inspection, the negatives that jump out are:

-The asymmetry of the rims
-The beveled interior edge of the obverse rim from 5:30 to 7:00
-The way the reverse fields appear to slope up to meet the rims from 4:00 to 8:00

I still wonder if a circulated Matte Proof Lincoln will ever be certified

WaterSport

Still one heck of a 1910..I would not throw it away....

WS

ambro51

Using the 1877 IHC as an example, circulated proofs DO show up, easily identified by the strong N in ONE on the reverse.

So, I do think that circulated mattes exist, and no doubt someone who is willing to search through whitmans and dealer 2X2's will eventually locate one by the diagnostics.
I know I took a Looooong look at all the VDB's Ive got, hoping to see that little die chip next to the M in UNUM.

Now, **thats** and interesting question, what would a PCGS VG 1909VDB mattie be worth at auction?

BWRC

Here is a rim/edge shot of a 1910 MPL cent, use this for comparison of your coins rim/edge, notice the knifelike edges of the coins rim.

WaterSport

what would a PCGS VG 1909VDB mattie be worth at auction?

I do not know, but you and I would be bidding like crazy!

WS

ambro51

I suppose it would be graded PR8

wouldn't that be strange to see?

I'd bet it could still bring 5K easy...as long as it was certified. It would get you out of the 88% doldrums in the Registry anyway, and carry more weight than a "genuine"

Steve

<< <i>I suppose it would be graded PR8

wouldn't that be strange to see?

I'd bet it could still bring 5K easy...as long as it was certified. It would get you out of the 88% doldrums in the Registry anyway, and carry more weight than a "genuine" >>



Ambro,
It is hard for me to imagine a 1909VDB matte proof actually circulating for the amount of years necessary in order for it to be graded very good and THEN be somehow found by a collector who recognized the coin as a matte proof. More likely, this circulated MPL would now be in XF condition. In either case, in TODAY'S market, I would agree it would bring at least $5K.
What did you mean by "carry more weight than a 'genuine'"?
Steve

ambro51

"genuine" gives you 1 point registry value. Would not a 'graded' coin, whatever the grade, give you a higher registry value?

I think the onus would be more on PCGS to certify, rather than the collector.

renomedphys

So, now that everybody's pondering the "What if" of a circulated MPL, just exactly how far would a matte have to degrade before it became totally unrecognizeable? Obviously, the high points and the rims would suffer the most indignation first. A matte in XF condition would probably have rims that were strong, but not necessarilly distinguishable as definitely matte. Protected areas should survive unharmed for quite some time, but who's to say that we weren't just looking at the hypothetical "proof die used for an MS coin" coin? There would have to be some characteristic of the coin that both survived, and was proveable along with other diagnostics to be certified as proof. In my opinion, that simply could not be done for any coin below a "50", especially when there exist so many non-proof and nearly identical MS coins circulating about. In my opinion, we'll just never see a PR35 in this series, much less a PR8, regardless of how compelling the evidence is.

BWRC

Lowest grade to date at PCGS, 2 @ PR60

cohodk

Nice business strike.

Steve

Goof. Sorry.

chrsb

Well I should have it back soon from PCGS............


It is coming home in a BB, they labeled it as damaged (PR98BN)

Thank you to Brian(love your web site, someday I will be able to afford something on your site) and to everyone else.

I guess if it was not a MPL it would have come back PR90? Not genuine? Or is PR98BN the same as not a MPL?
My submission# is 3884451, don't laugh at the others, I am learning and trying to complete my chrsb proof collection then hopefully upgrade later.
Here is a larger pic of the cent-

illini420

<< <i>
It is coming home in a BB, they labeled it as damaged (PR98BN)
>>



Any idea why they wouldn't put it in a Genuine slab?? I thought that there were no more BB... ??? Maybe you should call and confirm before they ship it??

lusterlover

I'm confused also. 1) why is it not being put in a genuine slab, 2) what damage are they refering to, I don't see any, and 3) does the PR in the code mean proof?

chrsb

I think the genuine slabs are for orders received after 12-1, my order was received 11/17.
Here is a link to my submission-
Link
If that is the case I have another order I am getting ready to send in to complete my registry set, I will include the 1910 again to get it in a slab.

lasvegasteddy

pr98 is damage which after looking and looking i'm just not seeing "damage"...strange call here

chrsb

Well I got it back a couple weeks ago, it came back "ex lucky coin holder" WTF, I have seen those before, own one, this one has no damage to its rims. To bad I submited to early for it to be encapsulated. I have another submission going in soon, I will send it in again to see if they holder it MPL damaged.