How much do you think the 09vdb PR61 would sell for?

ChrisRx

If sold right now?

robec

I'm just guessing, but I would say $15k+. Do you know of one?

ChrisRx

<< <i>I'm just guessing, but I would say $15k+. Do you know of one? >>



Yes I know of one (not for sale though) I was thinking 15-20k myself.

ambro51

How much will a rich man dying of thirst pay for a drink of water?

Duane

Look at the price guide ($3,750 for BN-$4,500 for RD); Look at the coin (PQ or junk?); The population (Probably low, but that argument does not seem to fly for other coins, so why the VDB?)

What is someone willing to pay (that's your answer!)

Personally, I'd probably not buy it. It does not fit in with my collection goals. A 65BN would be a differant story. Or a super nice 66-67 RD or RB with nice toning might be a good long term coin.

Find the right buyer, and I'd bet it could go for 10K, in today's market - but that really depends on the coin. At PR61, I would not expect too much.....

Just some ramdom thoughts.

ChrisRx

But Duane, most people don't have 50k to throw on a coin to complete a set. When it comes to a coin that is so scarcely available I believe that the notion of if it has the right "look" or not goes out the window (unless you're loaded $$)

pennyannie

I would be a buyer in a heart beat!!!! This i could slide under my wifes eyes.

Duane

I understand your point, and it's partially fair : ) - but it's a chicken/egg argument - the reason I have 50K to spend is that I make reasoned buys (usually). Buying coins that don't logically 'grab' you may not 'grab' the next guy, either, and you may be sitting on a goose egg. What is your justification for a number like 15-20K? I'm not being a wise guy, I am very curious.

Granted, this is a rare coin, and the demand is such you can probably move it. But can you move it at 15-20K? I don't know. A PCGS 1909VDB 64RB just went for 30K in August at the HA Batimore show. And there were 30 people watching the coin. I stopped bidding at 27K. My advisor said "No higher"......the value is not there after that point (in our opinion, at the time).... And this coin is quite a few grades lower then that.

That's just one point of view.....but I am curious why that number/ I siad 10K based on what is most likely a less then full eye appealing coin (I may be wrong, but PR60-61 have that grade for a reason).

BTW, what is the population of this coin's color and grade? IMO, that's important.

robec

<< <i>I would be a buyer in a heart beat!!!! This i could slide under my wifes eyes. >>



Well maybe before she read this you could.

renomedphys

Jeez guys, it only depends on what it looks like!

ChrisRx

Well I guess if it is HORRID then it would catch around 10k +/-
If it is PQ then I could see 15k+/- and just around 20k if there is a battle for it.

My only "justification" for this is that it may be the only vdb that many could acquire. You make excellent points, again, this is only an assumption I have made.

Steve

<< <i>But Duane, most people don't have 50k to throw on a coin to complete a set. When it comes to a coin that is so scarcely available I believe that the notion of if it has the right "look" or not goes out the window (unless you're loaded $$) >>



Chris,
When I saw this thread I immediately thought you were refering to MY 1909VDB MPL. Why? Because it is the ONLY PR61 that has been slabbed by either PCGS or NGC. In fact, PCGS has only slabbed 3 other 09VDB MPL's in grade 62 and I wouldn't doubt that maybe one or two or all three of them have been cracked out and up graded in the past 22 years.
So the question you ask is a very valid one. How much is a PR61 worth today? Duane makes a good point in that if you have the money you would certainly think to buy a higher graded example of this rare coin. There are obviously more higher grades out there to attempt to find and the potential appreciation on your cost would be much greater. But, if you are like many of us who realistically can't spend five figures on a single coin, but want to pasionately complete a Matte Proof Lincoln set, you would naturally look to aquiring ANY legitimate example of the 09VDB MPL. The real problem with such an attempt is that unless you have the coin in a respected TPG holder you risk owning a raw coin that is not accepted by the hobby as a real 09VDB MPL. This is why I personally feel I am in a unique position of owning the lowest graded example of this coin and at the same time knowing there is demand out there for it. To be clear, as the Master Card slogan goes, this coin is "priceless" to me. It is not currently for sale! I'm attaching the obverse picture below and you can clearly see why it is graded PR61 by PCGS. The carbon spot above Lincoln's head was clearly visable in 2002 when I won the coin at the CSNS Heritage auction as a PR63RB in an ANACS holder. In getting the crossover to PCGS, they told me that if it wasn't for the spot they would have graded it PR63RB. Fortunately, that spot has remained exactly as it is seen after 6 1/2 years of my ownership. And somehow, I've grown to "love" this coin even more, because of its rarity.
I know all this doesn't help you to get a 1909VDB MPL. The truth is that this coin, unlike any other Lincoln cent, is just NOT available except via major auction or private treaty sales. So to attempt to answer your question of what the coin in PR61 would sell for. Well, the seller is supposed to state his price and THIS owner says the coin is "priceless". PCGS says it is currently worth $4,000. Truth be known, THIS coin is REALLY worth what the highest bidder would pay. Of course, this is JMHO and I welcome others comments. Thanks Chris for starting this thread because I really believe, as it relates to the 1909VDB MPL version ONLY, condition is not as important a factor UNLESS the buyer has significant money to spend.
Steve

ambro51

I still think QDB threw a bunch of VDB mattes out in the trash decades ago...he alludes to throwing away 'some' mattes in his Lincoln cent book, and VDB's are certainly down on the pops from what was known struck.

He will never fess up to it.

If he does....he will never be forgiven. Sort of like Breen.....you get remembered for the 'bad' you done, rather than the 'good'.

RBinTex

15k +/-

ChrisRx

STEVE, Thanks for the excellent reply. Yup, it was your coin I was referring too. It don't look too bad either

lasvegasteddy

easy $15k

WaterSport

Crack it, acetone it, resubmit it..It will be worth more then.

WS

ambro51

Then maybe we can discuss "How much do you think a BB 09VDB would sell for?"

Id never never never open up that coin.

robec

If Steve cracked it out and it upgraded a point, it might drop in value since it wouldn't have the distinction of being the lowest graded.

ambro51

Thats not a spot.

Its the smoke from Booths deringer.

(sorry bad tasteless joke)

Steve

<< <i>

Id never never never open up that coin. >>




Me neither.
Steve

lasvegasteddy

i totally love the story of this coin too there steve as with all your others

i take it you'd never again crack matty's is moreso proper aye

yup easy $15k coin

dbemike

Heres the auction photo of Steves 09 VDB MPL

Steve

I thought I'd bring Chris's thread up one more time to selfishly argue for the PCGS price guide to more accurately reflect pricing on the PR60 thru PR63 1909VDB MPL's.

I just looked at the latest prices listed for the twelve coin prices of PR60,PR61,PR62 & PR63 in BN, RB, & RD in the PCGS price guide. They range from $3,500 for a PR60 in brown to $9,500 for a PR63 in red. Then I looked at the PR64 in brown and it has a PCGS price of $30,000, and the prices go up from there.

Since the PCGS price guide reflects pricing for just PCGS graded coins, and since there is only 1 PCGS graded coin in PR61, 3 coins in PR62 and only 13 in PR63 after 22 years, maybe some of the "matte heads" here can get Jamie Hernandez to "close that gap" between $9,500 for a PR63 red and $30,000 for a PR64 brown in the PCGS price guide.

I guess I'm arguing that ANY PCGS graded 1909VDB MPL should be priced at over $10k in today's market and those PR63's should be in the $20k + range. Admitedly, I am biased, but based on what others have said in this thread, I kinda think it is more realistic to have these lower graded 1909VDB MPL's prices raised in the PCGS price guide. What do you think?
Steve

robec

Unfortunately I agree with you. But in the meantime, if you happen to see any BN/Red MPLs from $3500-$9500, please contact me.

dbemike

IMO, I don't think the price guide means much when dealing with certain coins like MPLs, especially since the mattes have taken off like they have over the last 18-24 months. Before that, the BV on them barely even budged for 3 or 4 years.