Fleer B/W proofs real?

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

Guy has many on ebay now. I asked if the back is blank. Yet to get a response. Why do they look like he just adjusted the pic to make them look B/W? Real?


ebay

digicat

There's something fishy here. He's got nice big scans for all of his cards... except his B/W "proofs".

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

Yeah, I clicked on a few and noticed that too.

2 B/W cards appear to have something else in the pic, barely, and it looks B/W too.

rube26105

i second that, small pic of all the 80's proofs, no back scans of any of them to me= makie no sensie if you want to sellie at good pricey?
he got 100% though ?

slantycouch

I don't know why proofs ever would have been black and white. I could understand black only process proofs, but printing using the CMYK process, they would not look like this. These are grayscale, not black only. I'd be suspicious.

pandrews

fake.

metalmike

Some of the Fleer junque is out there. For example, I own a 4x6 card auto'd 4 times by Torrie Wilson- they used to send celebs 4x6 cards - not stickers for auto's. Where is all the Fleer archive cards? without proof or a good scan I will have to say fantasyland. PM sent.

TheMcgwireMuseum

He also had a McGwire proof from another set I thought seemed fishy. He wouldn't provide any additional scans. it ended with a message from me stating I don't trust ninjas or pirates, so since he was both I wouldn't be bidding.

rube26105

aaaaarrrrrrrgggggggggg-always trust the pirates
ya gotta watch out for he ninjas though

schr1st

I'm guessing fake as well. Unless it was really cheap (a buck or 2 at the most), I'd pass.

MeteoriteGuy

<< <i>I don't know why proofs ever would have been black and white. I could understand black only process proofs, but printing using the CMYK process, they would not look like this. These are grayscale, not black only. I'd be suspicious. >>



Great answer. Cards are printed in the CMYK process, there would be no reason to make a card like this.

Here is a set of proofs, using a five color set up due to the gold, but it gives a good understanding on how a proof should look. The last has all five colors but no gloss.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

Someone one here has a run of ? Brett Butler proof cards. I think one was B/W. 1984 Topps maybe? Anyone?

lsutigers1973

The Butler 84 "proof" is in TNP777's sigline.

Random thread

MeteoriteGuy

There is no black in light blue.

Ironmanfan

I'll provide later today an entire run of an '82 Fleer Ripken rookie proof

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

<< <i>The Butler 84 "proof" is in TNP777's sigline.

Random thread >>



Thanks

lsutigers1973

The proof is in the pudding.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

<< <i>There is no black in light blue. >>



I see what your saying, once I look at the 84 Butler example. So the border would be white, if real.

slantycouch

<< <i>

<< <i>There is no black in light blue. >>



I see what your saying, once I look at the 84 Butler example. So the border would be white, if real.

>>



haha - "There is no black in light blue". Exactly.

And yes D - the border would be non-existent if it was actually the black run. Those cards are just grayscale versions of the "real" cards.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

So what you guys are saying is this guy has fake cards for sale? I guess it is true what they say about ninja pirates. Guess I have 2 types of "pirates" to look out for.

slantycouch

I'm not going to say they're fake, because who knows... maybe he just misunderstands what he has.

All I can say is that I find it highly unlikely that, for any proof run, they would create grayscale cards. There really isn't much to be gained from a proofing prospective by doing so.

The "official" proofs you see from Topps and/or other companies are usually 1-2 or even 3 color proofs from the CMYK process. Not desaturated versions of the final 4-color cards.

mtcards

I would question anyone who has a "one of a kind" masterpiece and is willing to sell it for under $10. Heck, I had a 1/1 superfractor from 06 Chrome and put a MB on $29.99 on i and it sold easily and that was of a common.

BunchOBull

I've always wondered if these were real...I think they are.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

^^ Progressive proofs?

BunchOBull

Yes, each step in the printing process.

MeteoriteGuy

I think the Thomas cards do look like progressive proofs.

The act of printing itself is cheap, it is setting up the printing which is expensive. Because of this almost all printers (for pretty much everything) will do proofs, but if you do not do it in a manner that would help you see things are right, doing a greyscale you would just be wasting money. About the only way such things could be real is if employees made them for their amusement, but in a company like Fleer it would take the combined effort of several employees. It is not likely to happen.

Combined with the fact that the photos are different then the rest of his auctions, and they a greyscale would be pretty easy to do on your computer...I would stay away, unless you don't mind such a thing in your collection. Even then I would hate to fund such actions.

BunchOBull

I think I won the lot for less than $10 shipped...it was a worthwhile gamble to me. I'm satisfied with them.

MeteoriteGuy

Also, it is worth noting that most real proofs are likely, or may be, sheet cut. That would not stop me from adding them to my collection though if I thought they looked good.

And in a side note, the Young Proofs I posted have full color backs, however they did not take the time to line them up perfect. Each side, with modern photo on back cards, has to go through the same steps....this of course does not mean they might not do a test run with a blank back, but I thought I would note it anyway.

Edit to add: I paid $20 for the Young lot from a bad feedback seller and crossed my fingers they would arrive. But I was not worried about them being real.

BunchOBull

Mark, there are variations in dimensions on those Thomas cards...the 4th being the worst cut and smllest. So yes, I assume they're sheet cut.