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What recourse to take when Item Not Received via Paypal payment: potential problem looming
DeutscherGeist
Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
I bought an entire sealed case of 2008 Bowman Baseball Draft Picks and Prospects on Oct 5. I paid with paypal the same day. This was a pre-order as stated in the auction. I email the seller very recently to inquire about an update of the case. He replied that Topps was not going to have them out until Dec 12 (a delay). He promised me a tracking number as soon as he can send out those cases. It sounds good, but this makes it over 60 days until the case can be sent out. What if I never get the item, I will have no recourse since its past the 60 day mark? Or do I have some protections for 90 days? Please advise.
"So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
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Otherwise, not fine.
You might consider phoning the seller, and
the deciding how it "feels."
much less later, as a matter of fact, Im sure you will be able to even beat a pre-sale price. If there is a chance of losing your money on some clown, shut
it down right now!
Kevin
Otherwise, I think storm is assuming that my credit card is good for 90 days in which case there is nothing to worry about. I used the Ebay Mastercard tied to my Paypal account.
It seems you guys are all with me on this and share in my concern. I understand this is a presale, so I did not expect fast shipment, but over 60 days and into the holiday season where things are slower, perhaps the 90 days could even be in jepordy. This is a 100% seller, so I do have confidence it will work out, but its OK to be on your guard as well.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
You are waiting just like everyone else now, and won't get your product until it is released, I don't see this stuff flying off the shelves,
you could pick up a case when it is live...why tie your money up in this when you don't have to?
Kevin
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Regardless of any lingo in your CC user-agreement, chargebacks for
fraud have - for practical purposes - no predetermined time limit.
EBAY sellers are being hit with CBs from sales that were made YEARS ago.
Thank you for your concern. I am glad you chimed in and what you say makes sense. What happened was that I got so excited with the 30% off from microsoft that I wanted to milk it. I always buy the Bowman Baseball Draft Picks and Prospects every year, so I looked for the best seller reputation and deal and went for it. Not in my wildest dreams did I think I can get hobby boxes from this great set so cheap. I just did not want to lose my chance at the 30% for something I buy anyway.
I can handle tying up my money in this case and I think you are right that this stuff won't be flying off the shelves come January. The economy is soft, so I see your point. Right now, with the 30% mark down, I feel locked this thing at a good price. Will it be cheaper in January? Maybe, but it still might not offset the 30% I saved. I see your point and all, but do you see what I am getting at too?
Anyway, you introduced me to this modern set and am always grateful to you for that. I really like these type of cards.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
Do you mean I can easily call my credit card company 100 days after the fact and say I never received this case of baseball cards purchased from ebay from this seller and would like a chargeback....? They would do a chargeback and investigate that the seller indeed has no proof of sending it and close the case in my favor?
What constitutes fraud might be the point that creates a gray area. Not sending an item already paid for is clearly fraud I would have to assume. Sending a fake gold coin is also fraud.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
Steve
<< <i>I thought all ebay pre sales had to be concluded within 30 days.
Steve >>
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That's the way I read the EBAY policy, and the PP "seller proetction," too.
The CC companies will do chargebacks YEARS after the sale,
in a case of alleged fraud or unauthorized-use. They are also
liberal on defective merch CBs.
A few months ago, a group of sellers got hit with CB's in excess of $200K;
the sales were from 2001-2003.
Kevin
Storm888,
I am not doubting what you say about chargebacks, but I have had no luck doing a chargeback 90 days after the fact when I had a car repair incident. The mechanic charged me for work he did not perform. I called the credit card company (Nordstrom Visa) and they wanted to help me even though it was beyond 90 days. I sent in the paper work and then they responded that it is past 90 days (apparently, the newbie on the phone misinformed me). Since I had a legit case, I filed with the BBB and the Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR). There was no luck with the BBB (they simply stated that the mechanic is not responding and closed the case with a huge ding on his once perfect record). The BAR saw my case and sided with me and the mechanic finally gave my money back (the BAR also dinged their record because of what they tried to do).
Regarding late chargebacks, I may be doing something wrong, but I will try another case to see if the chargeback will work. However, whenever I do a chargeback within 90 days and the case is sound, I do very well. I really believe credit cards are a consumer's best protection.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
Pre-Sale Listings
Pre-sale listings are those that describe items for sale that are not in the control or possession of the seller at the time of the listing. These listings generally consist of items that are sold in advance of a delivery date to the public.
eBay permits Pre-sale listings only on a limited basis. The seller must guarantee that the item will be available for shipping within 30 days from the date of purchase (i.e., the day the listing ends or the date the item is purchased from a store front listing). The seller must also clearly indicate within the listing the fact that the item is a pre-sale item with a delivery date that indicates the item will be shipped by the 30th day from the end date of the listing. Additionally, this text must be no less than the default font size of the eBay Sell-Your-Item form. Currently, the default font size is HTML font size 3.
Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:
Listing cancellation
Limits on account privileges
Account suspension
Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
Loss of PowerSeller status
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LOTS of folks have LOTS of different experiences with initiating
charge-backs.
Some card issuers handle complaints about "services" differently
than they handle complaints about "merchandise."
Also, if you have services performed more than 50/100 miles from
your billing addy, most card companies will give you a hard time
about chargebacks. It can be gotten around, but it is often hard.
My personal record for having a CB filed against me is 20+ months.
My personal record for filing a CB against a vendor is 10+ months.
I bought a TV with an extended warranty, returned it to the store,
and CC failed to credit the warranty money when they credited
the TV. They credited the warranty money upon my complaint. (I
did not look at the return ticket until months later when I saw
I was being charged for a warranty on something I had returned.)
Most credit-card UAs mention "180-days" as a "limit." It's not.
A CB can hit a merchant account - or PayPal - at virtually ANYTIME
after the sale. It is just something we have to live with, if we
are going to take cards.
The card companies have a legit process for merchants to defend
their positions, and consumers are usually treated "fairly." Though,
almost nobody who loses a CB thinks it was "fair."
By contrast, PayPal's CB scheme is FAR from "fair" to EBAY sellers.
The FBI and other Federal agencies often take YEARS before they
beome involved in criminal investigations that result in CBs for
fraud or unauthorized use.
A search of the EBAY boards will reveal LOTS of dramas that resulted
from CBs on sales that were YEARS old.
............
In a CB dispute, it is important for the consumer to not take "NO"
for an answer, if he is convinced his position is correct. Also, merchants
should never quit fighting, if they believe they are right in the matter.
Persistence Overcomes Resistance.
I was looking at some other auctions with the same item for sale. Some sellers state the release date of 12/08/08.
My seller state 12/12/08. This could be regional variation. My seller has 100% feedback. Even though he violated the Ebay Rules of having a pre-sale in which the customer is now not going to get the item in 30days, I have to assume he did not know there would be a delay and has every intention of sending me the product.
I paid in full on October 5. On Dec. 5, It will be 2 months or 60 days since payment. So, I might get my item in under 90 days, but beyond 60 days. I did use my mastercard via paypal. What the seller states seems legit. If he does not send out the good for whatever reason, I can call my credit card company and get a charge back. I think I am secure. If the guy want to take advantage of me, how can he if he has no sig confirmation that he sent the item. Its a slam dunk case I would think.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
Auction
tell him I'd re buy from him at that time. Why put yourself through any stress.
30% or no 30%.
Steve
The seller had communicated with me a couple times apologizing for the delay but keeping me up to date with the tracking number.
Everything went well in the transaction except that it took longer than 60 days. Granted it was a presell, but it went over the time limit of the very good consumer protection we call PayPal. I was just worried about the protection even though I had another layer of it by having used my Mastercard via Paypal. I am not a stickler on fast shipping, but this was too close for comfort had he been a dishonest seller, which he is not.
The seller has 100% feedback, but someone complained recently in a neutral that shipping was slow. I just care about the item being as described and not being damaged because of poor packaging.
He already left me positive feedback a long time ago. I will leave him a positive too. In the DSR, I feel he deserves all 5 stars on everything except shipping time. But the only reason I bring up the shipping time is because I was worried if he was an honest seller or not, otherwise, I am fine with it.
What do you guys think about feedback. I appreciate the responses I can get about this. Many of you are sellers, so you might have some sympathy for this guy. How do you think I should proceed?
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
the seller failed the buyer.
Presales are a different animal and there is an assumption of risk
by the buyer. Sellers cannot ship the sufff until it is available.
If the items arrived in satisfactory condition, I would not damage
the seller's stars.
....................
Hundreds of small sellers are being suspended each day for DSR
violations.
Once most of them are gone, buyers will have fewer choices and
will be paying higher-prices.
Bad FB and dinged stars should likely be reserved for frausdsters
and rude/nasty sellers.
Storm888,
I take your input to heart. I won't even ding him for the shipping time since it was a pre-sell and a totally different animal. He really did ship fast once he had the product on hand. I will go ahead and leave him the feedback he deserves.
I agree with you that the dinging on DSR should happen to fraudsters not an honest seller that had a few things go wrong that were not totally under his control.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
At the very least, I can send the seller an email just to explain and thank him for getting the product to me safely.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee