Where the great ones sell: Auction vs. dealer

RYK

In the last couple years, I have seen sets of coins sold by the numismatic elite appear both at auction and via high-end national dealers. I can think of four extremely prominent collectors (including three forum members) sell their six figure classic sets both ways. What goes into the decision-making process? How does one choose whether to sell to a dealer (either by consignment or outright sale) or to consign to the big firm in Dallas?

Coinosaurus

I don't know how they do it, but I have seen very obvious mistakes made - in particular selling stuff at fixed price when it should have gone into an auction. If a dealer lists something, sells it immediately, then gets another ten calls on the same item - it should have gone into an auction.

Longacre

I would love to hear the comments of a big collector, such as TahoeDale, on this question. I know that he has had some spectacular collections in auctions, but I am not sure if he sold any full collections outright to dealers.

Personally, I am more of a private seller. If someone is a big collector, then they should have really good ties within the market, and putting the coins in an auction would not be automatic. They might find a better outlet through the dealer who helped build the collection, because that dealer is more tied into the market than any auction participant could ever be. True, the silly money bidders would be missed with a direct sale to a dealer, but the ease, speed, and overall pleasant dealing with a single dealer should outweigh going the public auction route.

coolest

I have not yet met a dealer willing to pay even gray sheet bid for choice (VF35, XF45, AU55) coins. And when selling groups of coins, or sets, it seems to go down from there with all the none keys and "common" junk that they would have to sit on for months.

TahoeDale

Both the reputabl/e knowledgeable dealer and the right auction house can be the best way to go, depending on the collection, and time when the set is sold.

And the size of the collection(number of coins and value) may be the determining factor.

To a dealer: My proof shield nickels, with only 20 coins, and a value of less than $40,000 went to a dealer, who sold the set intact.

Also, my MS barber quarters were sold partially to 2 high end collectors, and the remaining consigned to Pinnacle Rarities. I have known Katy and Danny since their and my days in Houston, and they know the Barber market. Here, I probably left some money on the table, as all 3 keys (1896-S, 1901-S and 1913-S) didn't have a chance for auction bidding.

No doubt that a highly public auction is the best venue for really rare dates, that seldom come to light. For that reason, my MS Barber halves will be sold at FUN in January.

Caveat: with today's financial crisis, choose the venue for selling carefully. I have always been paid expeditiously by all with whom I have dealt. If you don't have previous experience with a dealer, be sure to get help, in deciding which way to go.

tradedollarnut

I almost always sell privately. I put the price I want on the set and if it sells, then I take it with no regrets. To expose a coin to auction and not have it sell is almost always bad [the 1913 sale notwithstanding]. And the odds of having a knock down drag out fight over a coin is simply too remote and unpredictable.

tradedollarnut

QDB sold his trade dollar set privately. Jack Lee sold his Morgans and Walkers privately. Mr Stack sold his type set privately. Mr Share sold his dollar set privately.

The list goes on and on and on.

roadrunner

For coins that cannot be valued such as pop 1 with nothing even close, or with no price history in years or no price guide help, maybe those should go to auction. I had a few coins like this that I consigned because I could not figure out their true value. The auction did that. And it was a lot more than I would have priced the coin for had I followed through with a private sale.

But one concern in the present financial environment is the 2 or more months that elapse before your coins are sold. In that time frame our market could change drastically. Another thought is that if you want the money today to purchase an alternate item that is attractively priced, and may not be in several months, then auction is too far away.

roadrunner

coinkat

Well, the far from great have sold throughout the world

BECOKA

Seems like you could shop a rare coin around. Work with a couple of good dealers, name a price and see if they can find a buyer. If that does not work then send it to auction.

TahoeDale

The hazards of an auction vs. dealer transaction cannot be strictly measured, but there are some factors that will help your decision.

1. The number of the coins in the collection.

2. The total value, and the certainty( or unknown value) of pricing for the series.

3. The rarity of the majority of the dates

4. The need for the proceeds--immediate or long term.

5. The status of the market, and presence of other collectors for your series.

6. Your experience and knowlerge of the auction scene.

Not until you have tried both, and gone through the travails associated with each, can you make an informed decision.

The private sale is the easiest, if possible. Dealer consignment may take as long or longer than the time between consignment and payment of all procceds by an auction house.

I have enjoyed superb results with all choices, and have been disappointed, a few times, with all.

ttown

So has anyone ever sold a coin like this to a board member that was just waiting for you to sell? Seems like having a few high end friend on this board would be a great way to pass it on to someone in need.

roadrunner

Once you start shopping a collection around, the word gets out quick. If you are unsuccessful, or shooting for beyond the moon, you will hinder your chances of getting top dollar. And the more times you shop, the more stale and over-exposed your coins become. While there are exceptions to this such as for exceptional and rare material, for 99% of coins sold, overexposure is a big deal.

I've seen groups of very desireable coins from leading dealers go to major auction with very optimistic reserves set and then not sell. And then seen those same coins go up for sale over and over again for 1-2 years until the seller finally bails out while taking hits of 30%-50% from what they could have gotten the first time around had they just sold them with realisitic reserves.

roadrunner

Boom

If a collector can sell his collection for the figure he has in mind, privately
it makes no sense to involve a Middle-Man and to incur fees.

One shot - ball game!

chaze215

<< <i>If a collector can sell his collection for the figure he has in mind, privately
it makes no sense to involve a Middle-Man and to incur fees.

One shot - ball game! >>



What are the fees associated with consignment of a coin or set of coins?

Boom

<< <i>What are the fees associated with consignment of a coin or set of coins? >>



Depends on a # of factors, foremost being sellers' fees!

There are fees & expenses involved with auctions & or consignment,
depending on the chosen venue.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>If a collector can sell his collection for the figure he has in mind, privately
it makes no sense to involve a Middle-Man and to incur fees.

One shot - ball game! >>



What are the fees associated with consignment of a coin or set of coins? >>



Depending on the value of the collection the commission is I believe 6%. On top of that the auction house charges 15% juice so the belief is that the realized price will be lower by 15% as many bidders supposedly factor this into their bid. If you consign $25K worth of coins to a major auction house, you will not have much if any leverage in negotiating terms. Suppose a coin hammers at $500, so if the 15% juice is factored in, it should have sold out of auction for $588 and change. Now add the 6% commish on $500 and and thats another $30. So you net $470 on a coin that could have sold on the BS&T board for $588. So in theory anyways you left $118 on the table by consigning it. Plus you have to wait for your money. If you paid $500 for it, you took it in the shorts. If you put it on the BS&T with a $575 or offer price you would have done OK. Even eBay wth PP and FV fees would probably have been a better choice.

Of course all listing don't go exactly like this. Your coins would have to be something special or be worth several hundred $K to justify a major auction house. If you have a set of Morgans with the commons in 65-66 you would do well to sell the commons on your own.

BAJJERFAN

Seems tho like every day that I am bombarded by the auction houses via voice mails, emails and snailmail with solicitations to consign/sell my coins. Look at the set linked in my sig line and tell me how you would sell it if it was yours.

Nic

I agree with everything Dale said. That's a first.

K

Boom

Dunno!

How much?

BAJJERFAN

<< <i> Dunno!

How much? >>



Thats what I'm asking you guys to decide.

pennyannie

Sometimes you can get 105 percent selling thru Heritage. Depends on what you have and who you know. Some sellers may do even better. I have outright sold to Heritage a few times and was very happy with the price. I could not have done better anywhere.