What happens when the current “specialists” die?
RWB
Posts: 8,082 ✭
Numismatics is filled with specialists on one coin series or another, or a specific aspect of minting. Given the relatively small size of the hobby and the complete absence of academic or business support for research, there might be only one person holding highly specialized knowledge. What happens when that specialist dies, kicks the bucket, shuffles off, fades away, moves to Shangri La?
[My own specialty is the numeral “4” on date logotypes of 1827...highly esoteric stuff. Will there be anyone to pick up the standard, to hoist the legionary eagle?]
[My own specialty is the numeral “4” on date logotypes of 1827...highly esoteric stuff. Will there be anyone to pick up the standard, to hoist the legionary eagle?]
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[My own specialty is the numeral “4” on date logotypes of 1827...highly esoteric stuff. >>
Doesn't seem like that would take much time to figure out.
<< <i>What happens when that specialist dies, kicks the bucket, shuffles off, fades away, moves to Shangri La? >>
There generally seems to be someone new ready to step in and carry the ball.
Annual symposium in Omaha ? I'll bring the donuts.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Numismatics is filled with specialists on one coin series or another, or a specific aspect of minting. Given the relatively small size of the hobby and the complete absence of academic or business support for research, there might be only one person holding highly specialized knowledge. What happens when that specialist dies, kicks the bucket, shuffles off, fades away, moves to Shangri La?
[My own specialty is the numeral “4” on date logotypes of 1827...highly esoteric stuff. Will there be anyone to pick up the standard, to hoist the legionary eagle?] >>
If that specialist were that unique, surlely he/she would have documented his/her research in either a book or personal notes.
If in a book, then the information gets passed on to a new generation, if in personal notes, I feel confident that that information would be offered to the public.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Numismatics is filled with specialists on one coin series or another, or a specific aspect of minting. Given the relatively small size of the hobby and the complete absence of academic or business support for research, there might be only one person holding highly specialized knowledge. What happens when that specialist dies, kicks the bucket, shuffles off, fades away, moves to Shangri La?
[My own specialty is the numeral “4” on date logotypes of 1827...highly esoteric stuff. Will there be anyone to pick up the standard, to hoist the legionary eagle?] >>
Are yopu sure you're even the right person to ask the question?
AND WHEN I DIE -BST ~'69
I'm not scared of dying,
And I don't really care.
If it's peace you find in dying,
Well then let the time be near.
If it's peace you find in dying,
And if dying time is here,
Just bundle up my coffin
'Cause it's cold way down there.
I hear that its cold way down their.
Yeah, crazy cold way down their.
Chorus:
And when I die, and when I'm gone,
There'll be one child born
In this world to carry on,
to carry on.
Now troubles are many, they're as deep as a well.
I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.
Swear there ain't no heaven and I pray there ain't no hell,
But I'll never know by living, only my dying will tell.
Yes only my dying will tell.
Yeah, only my dying will tell.
Chorus
Give me my freedom for as long as I be.
All I ask of living is to have no chains on me.
All I ask of living is to have no chains on me,
And all I ask of dying is to go naturally.
Oh I want to go naturally.
Here I go,
Hey Hey!
Here comes the devil,
Right Behind.
Look out children,
Here he comes!
Here he comes! Hey...
Don't want to go by the devil.
Don't want to go by demon.
Don't want to go by Satan,
Don't want to die uneasy.
Just let me go naturally.
and when I die,
When I'm dead, dead and gone,
There'll be one child born in our world to carry on,
To carry on.
Yeah, yeah
specialty and they are deemed the specialist...
seems rather simple. if one person can learn that much about it another
can. specialists are replaceable. they are not einstein material after all. just takes a special devotion to the specialty they love/adore/great interest.
At this year's breakfast of the Rittenhouse Society*, someone --- it may have been you, or was it Pete Smith? --- raised this question. I didn't say anything at the time, but frankly it was a pretty disturbing question. There are many numismatists who are quiet, dedicated, and dogged researchers, who have compiled and continue to compile vast amounts of information, think through challenging questions, make brilliant intellectual connections, and write about their discoveries in private journals and notes. But much of their work is unpublished. Much of it is perhaps not as appreciated by spouses and family members as it might be, given its specialized nature. The question is disturbing ("What happens to their knowledge when they shuffle off this mortal coil?") in the same way it's disturbing when a collector dies and his wife doesn't know the value of his collection and sells it cheap. But the injustice of that kind of loss at least can be mollified by various thoughts --- "His coins are re-entering the hobby community; someone else will enjoy them now; at least his widow is getting something." What happens when notebooks of inscrutable, rarefied research are thrown out? When computer files with thousands of bits and pieces of knowledge are deleted or downloaded to CDs and packed away, while the intellectual connections die with the man?
It's important for collectors to have a notebook in their safe or bank box, or attached to their will, telling their family what they own and what value it has, how to dispose of it, who in the hobby community will appreciate it and can be trusted to help evaluate it, etc.
It's just as important for researchers to leave some information and guidance about their research.
* I was there as a guest, not a member!
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It's important for collectors to have a notebook in their safe or bank box, or attached to their will, telling their family what they own and what value it has, how to dispose of it, who in the hobby community will appreciate it and can be trusted to help evaluate it, etc.
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I hadn't thought of the notebook idea...I like it and will work at getting one together for my SDBs
<< <i> but frankly it was a pretty disturbing question. There are many numismatists who are quiet, dedicated, and dogged researchers, who have compiled and continue to compile vast amounts of information, think through challenging questions, make brilliant intellectual connections, and write about their discoveries in private journals and notes. But much of their work is unpublished. Much of it is perhaps not as appreciated by spouses and family members as it might be, given its specialized nature. The question is disturbing ("What happens to their knowledge when they shuffle off this mortal coil?")
>>
Imagine how difficult progress was before 3100 BC when writing was invented.
...And then it took another score of centuries before coins were invented.
One must keep smoe perspective here. Buck up, it's the journey, not the destination.
- - -
I'm talking about the journey.
so narrow that only a single individual might be involved. If there is
no one to carry the standard his work may be lost and researchers
in the future have to start from square one or even further back. It's
a shame that the information is lost.
But look at the bigger picture. The odds are good that these things
are never going to be critical to the species. Even if they were, there
are many far more important issues and things which go wholly unex-
plored.
It is a very legitimate question but I'm not sure it's a very important
question nor is it a very answerable one.
Perhaps the best answer I might suggest is that if you're working in
an area by yourself then you should select an "heir apparent" and
provide that person with as much of your work as practical. If some-
one comes along with an interest then, with great luck, your material
may find its way to them.
It wasn't my intention to belittle the question. But to my mind it has
more of the earmarks of a rhetorical question than anything else.
<< <i>It is a reality and although Barndog may very well be right, he should know. There are many including him who can carry the torch with cbhd's. >>
I can't yet take the pebble from Master's hand
I hope I won't need to bring a loupe.
(Obviously, my personal example was too flippant and might have been more distraction than anything else.)
Obviously, the first answer is to publish what you know.
The second answer is to make sure that numismatists remember what has been published - keeping bibliographies and electronic indexes up-to-date is very important, too.
The third answer is to encourage more collectors to become researchers.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
When a specialist is working they may not necessarily keep very thorough records. As has been mentioned on early dollars and bust coinage, some specialists kept many puzzle pieces in their head – intending to one day complete the picture. That day never came. Now the connections are lost. Of the finest numismatic writers of the past left timely and incredibly useful work behind. But they also took with them much more that we might never know.
I am proposing no “solution” for there isn’t one, or several or many. It is possibly to contemplate how we value, secure and transmit knowledge.
edit to add:
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
The one advantage numismatic researchers have today is that we don't need an editor who's interested, nor do we need to look for a numismatic publication with space in its printed pages.
If someone has a partial puzzle, he can send it to an electronic publication (like the E-Sylum) - it may be useful immediately or someone may stumble across it six months (or six years) from now. In any case, the E-Sylum doesn't have any space limitations - megabytes are a lot cheaper than paper and much easier to search through.
As for an index to Coin World, even though they'll never do it, someday an obsessive-compulsive coin collector (I hear there are one or two) will sit down with the back issues and create an index.
In any event, Roger, don't be like "them old guys" - write everything down! Do it now!
or at least dictate it to Longacre
Check out the Southern Gold Society
You and I had discussed an apprenticeship program under the aegis of the ANA in which a new seminar which you called "ruminents of research" could be commenced as soon as 2009. Perhaps a renewed effort to make it happen?
Keep in mind that for nearly 100 years the entire coin hobby did not realize that the early $20 Libs had a major misspelling of LIBERTY. Obviously the US Mint officials and others knew of the correction back in the 19th century but no researchers kept that information alive until it was rediscovered many many generations later.
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<< <i>It is a reality and although Barndog may very well be right, he should know. There are many including him who can carry the torch with cbhd's. >>
I can't yet take the pebble from Master's hand >>
Any chance the "Master" might publish a book someday? That's one I would definitely purchase.
Very thought-provoking question and responses.
-Randy Newman
Not really. If the information has value, it will be rediscovered by someone else. Two people will have had the joy of discovery instead of just one.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Numismatics is filled with specialists on one coin series or another, or a specific aspect of minting. Given the relatively small size of the hobby and the complete absence of academic or business support for research, there might be only one person holding highly specialized knowledge. What happens when that specialist dies, kicks the bucket, shuffles off, fades away, moves to Shangri La?
[My own specialty is the numeral “4” on date logotypes of 1827...highly esoteric stuff. Will there be anyone to pick up the standard, to hoist the legionary eagle?] >>
I could bring crayons™ , for example.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
FYI, the major literature auctions (Kolbe, Davis et al) often have original research journals from past numismatists that have not been shared, published or anything else. However, someone did have the foresight to save the notebooks and give/sell them to someone. In the digital age, such files could easily be discarded... who searches Grandpa's hard drive for original research? Hmmm!!
If you are referring to dealer specialists, Sheridan Downey may have some information on Bust Half private collections, but not much is secret from the Bust Nuts. There are no other Bust Half Dollar dealers with inside information.
Many now know what happens to specialists in Classic Commemoratives like Larry Shepherd, they go on to be ANA Executive Director.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>They either go to coin heaven, or somewhere else. >>
And by "somewhere else," you mean Long Beach, right?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>There are a lot of hungry young numismatists. I feel as though top specialists have an obligation to the science of numismatics to pass along their knowledge to others, mostly to someone who is able to continue to research and discoveries of the specialist. >>
LA, any time you want to come over and clean all the old research files out of the basement, have at it. Be careful what you wish for