What are the PCGS rules regarding the inclusion of non-PCGS coins in a Registry Set?
MrEureka
Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have an idea I'm kicking around but need to know the current rules before making suggestions.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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Yes, I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I need to catch up. I haven't been paying much attention to this game.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
It includes current populations and prices from the price guide for the coin in the set.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
JMHO, GrandAm
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
<< <i>
<< <i>......., I believe there is a way it could be done if the collector is doing it out of pure enjoyment and no ranking would be associated with the set. >>
I like this idea
I don't agree. Is it out of enjoyment or naivety? When they go to sell it and they think the NGC coins will bring close to what the PCGS coins bring, they will be disappointed. Keeping it all PCGS will avoid this. Of course, this isn't true for all series, but some series (like Lincolns) have issues that will bring 10 times the price in a PCGS holder as opposed to NGC. I was wondering as I was reading the CW article and he was saying that NGC coins were about on par with PCGS now: has anyone out there even ONE time submitted a PCGS coin to NGC to cross at the SAME GRADE? Not a PQ65 looking for an upgrade and then it crosses at 65, for instance, but an average 65 (or any other grade) that has no chance at an upgrade and you're just looking to cross at the same grade? I know I haven't.
i like pcgs set registry just the way it is
if anyone wants to let strays in please go across the street...they even have alot of strays in holders there
to me it would be like putting a chinese headlight on an ace...it will never shine as it should
"protect american's finest" i vote
if you're reading pcgs...never reduce your stance in upholding the finest we've all come to love
Actually, I didn't know the rules.
As for the reasons for asking, there were two.
First, it seems to me that if the registry is to be a platform for linking buyers and sellers, it would help everyone if they could see non-PCGS coins in a collection. For example, if I as a seller see a registry set of 61 to 65 quality Bust Halves, and if the 1831 is missing, I might offer the owner a PCGS 63. But if I see he already has an NGC 66, I probably won't.
But more importantly, I was thinking of the imaging of the sets, and possibilities for virtual albums, and it seems like every collector would want to include his non-PCGS coins.
But perhaps my viewpoint is too consumer-centric.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
When it comes to "grade inflation", NGC isn't the only one that makes mistakes
Some might argue that there is a "grade deflation" going on right now!
Would it hurt if a collector could show his entire set in the Registry, regardless of what slab the coin is in? The answer is no, PCGS could allow this in the "showcase" side of the Registry and just maintain the awards for PCGS slabs only.
For the record, it is highly unlikely that this will ever happen so everyone just relax...
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Additionally, where does it stop? NGC? ANACS? ICG? PCI? DRG? Raw? Where?
And please don't spout off about how its not about the slab but "the coin within the slab" because as far as PCGS is concerned, in this case, it is all about the slab. They can verify that the cert number is real and that it should be allowed in a specific set which is all PCGS Coin Number based anyway.
Does NGC even have coin numbers?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I think that PCGS does not allow non-PCGS coins in the registry simply because they cannot "validate" the authenticity of non-PCGS coins. How would PCGS validate the cert number on a non-PCGS coin online?
Additionally, where does it stop? NGC? ANACS? ICG? PCI? DRG? Raw? Where?
And please don't spout off about how its not about the slab but "the coin within the slab" because as far as PCGS is concerned, in this case, it is all about the slab. They can verify that the cert number is real and that it should be allowed in a specific set which is all PCGS Coin Number based anyway.
Does NGC even have coin numbers? >>
Lee,
Can PCGS even "validate" their own slabs and are the coins in the slabs what PCGS says they are?
And yes, there is a certification number on each NGC slab.
Tim
<< <i>
<< <i>I think that PCGS does not allow non-PCGS coins in the registry simply because they cannot "validate" the authenticity of non-PCGS coins. How would PCGS validate the cert number on a non-PCGS coin online?
Additionally, where does it stop? NGC? ANACS? ICG? PCI? DRG? Raw? Where?
And please don't spout off about how its not about the slab but "the coin within the slab" because as far as PCGS is concerned, in this case, it is all about the slab. They can verify that the cert number is real and that it should be allowed in a specific set which is all PCGS Coin Number based anyway.
Does NGC even have coin numbers? >>
Lee,
Can PCGS even "validate" their own slabs and are the coins in the slabs what PCGS says they are?
And yes, there is a certification number on each NGC slab.
Tim >>
Yes they can. The certification number is stored with its coin number which is what enables certain coins to go into certain sets.
Can PCGS validate whether or not you actually OWN the coin you put in your registery? Only through you providing a scan.
If you are implying that there are some coins that have mechanical problems and are slabbed under the wrong "coin number", well that problem exists across all TPG's as mistakes do happen.
As for NGC, I am fully aware that each slab has a "certification number" but NGC does not have "coin numbers" which is what divides the different sets. Part of the certification number is also the number of coins submitted on the order. I suspect that the first part of the cert number is the actual order number but do not know for sure. This makes it easy for NGC to "look up" the order to validate it but does little to distinquish the individual coins on that order.
The name is LEE!
<< <i> Yes they can. The certification number is stored with its coin number which is what enables certain coins to go into certain sets.
Can PCGS validate whether or not you actually OWN the coin you put in your registery? Only through you providing a scan.
If you are implying that there are some coins that have mechanical problems and are slabbed under the wrong "coin number", well that problem exists across all TPG's as mistakes do happen.
As for NGC, I am fully aware that each slab has a "certification number" but NGC does not have "coin numbers" which is what divides the different sets. Part of the certification number is also the number of coins submitted on the order. I suspect that the first part of the cert number is the actual order number but do not know for sure. This makes it easy for NGC to "look up" the order to validate it but does little to distinquish the individual coins on that order >>
Lee,
No disrespect intended, but to state that PCGS is better then NGC in grading or attribution is a stretch. As for adding coins to a Registry set, I never had problem adding a NGC or PCGS coin to the NGC Registry so it should be just a matter of programming for PCGS to add NGC coins.
Reference to my comment, “Can PCGS even "validate" their own slabs and are the coins in the slabs what PCGS says they are?”, I am not talking about “Mechanical Errors”, just incompetence.
Not all of the best coins are in PCGS plastic, and if the Registry is what it says it is:
The FREE, interactive PCGS Set RegistrySM program has revolutionized coin collecting around the world. Established in 2001, the PCGS Set Registry now hosts more nearly 35,000 sets. In addition to every major U.S. coin series, it offers categories for Australian, British, Canadian, Mexican, Costa Rican, Chinese, Euro, German, Japanese, Philippine and South African coins, with more to come.
Home to the world’s finest coin collections, the PCGS Set Registry gives collectors the opportunity to safely show off their PCGS-graded coins in a secure online environment, and compare their collections to some of the greatest ever assembled. You can start with just one coin and build your set over time, or add an entire collection. You can post images of your coins, view those of other collectors in your area of interest, and go from there!
“Home to the world’s finest coin collections …”, then why should the collector be limited to just coins slabbed by PCGS? PCGS further states that the collector can “compare their collection to some of the greatest ever assembled.” If this is the goal of PCGS then it should be about the coins and not the slabs.
The OP has a valid point.
JMHO,
Tim
<< <i>
<< <i> Yes they can. The certification number is stored with its coin number which is what enables certain coins to go into certain sets.
Can PCGS validate whether or not you actually OWN the coin you put in your registery? Only through you providing a scan.
If you are implying that there are some coins that have mechanical problems and are slabbed under the wrong "coin number", well that problem exists across all TPG's as mistakes do happen.
As for NGC, I am fully aware that each slab has a "certification number" but NGC does not have "coin numbers" which is what divides the different sets. Part of the certification number is also the number of coins submitted on the order. I suspect that the first part of the cert number is the actual order number but do not know for sure. This makes it easy for NGC to "look up" the order to validate it but does little to distinquish the individual coins on that order >>
Lee,
No disrespect intended, but to state that PCGS is better then NGC in grading or attribution is a stretch. As for adding coins to a Registry set, I never had problem adding a NGC or PCGS coin to the NGC Registry so it should be just a matter of programming for PCGS to add NGC coins.
Reference to my comment, “Can PCGS even "validate" their own slabs and are the coins in the slabs what PCGS says they are?”, I am not talking about “Mechanical Errors”, just incompetence.
Not all of the best coins are in PCGS plastic, and if the Registry is what it says it is:
The FREE, interactive PCGS Set RegistrySM program has revolutionized coin collecting around the world. Established in 2001, the PCGS Set Registry now hosts more nearly 35,000 sets. In addition to every major U.S. coin series, it offers categories for Australian, British, Canadian, Mexican, Costa Rican, Chinese, Euro, German, Japanese, Philippine and South African coins, with more to come.
Home to the world’s finest coin collections, the PCGS Set Registry gives collectors the opportunity to safely show off their PCGS-graded coins in a secure online environment, and compare their collections to some of the greatest ever assembled. You can start with just one coin and build your set over time, or add an entire collection. You can post images of your coins, view those of other collectors in your area of interest, and go from there!
“Home to the world’s finest coin collections …”, then why should the collector be limited to just coins slabbed by PCGS? PCGS further states that the collector can “compare their collection to some of the greatest ever assembled.” If this is the goal of PCGS then it should be about the coins and not the slabs.
The OP has a valid point.
JMHO,
Tim >>
Tim, I never stated in any of my posts on this thread that "PCGS is better then NGC in grading or attribution" so I haven't a clue where you got that one.
I did state that through PCGS's coin numbering system, they can control what coins go into what sets via their online database. I must have a PCGS Certification number in order to "register" a coin in the registry. That certification number has a PCGS coin number tied to it (in the PCGS database) which is what enables the cert number to be registered into a specific set.
Thinking you have the finest set and actually having the finest set is a matter of opinion. PCGS touts their registry as the Worlds Finest based upon PCGS's opinions on the coins THEY graded. Not what some other company graded.
There is nothing wrong with the concept that PCGS has produced, and yes, it is a marketing campaign that appears quite successful but its THEIR campaign based on THEIR rules.
As for PCGS boasting that their coins are the Worlds Finest, I would expect nothing less. After all, why would they ever say anything differently? Allowing non-PCGS coins into the registry kinda says that IMO. For whatever reason, PCGS coins do tend to bring higher prices in day to day transactions. This is not true n ALL coin transaction, just a majority.
Granted there are probably ungraded coins out there that whip but on the currently graded coins but until PCGS can look at them, its just one man's word against another which is the basis behind the creation of PCGS in the first place.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>no no no
i like pcgs set registry just the way it is
if anyone wants to let strays in please go across the street...they even have alot of strays in holders there
to me it would be like putting a chinese headlight on an ace...it will never shine as it should
"protect american's finest" i vote
if you're reading pcgs...never reduce your stance in upholding the finest we've all come to love >>
But there's nothing like high quality images of superior coins that are "dead on" when showing off the multiple qualities they have, for example, the following coin just screams, "I'm the best there is, prove me wrong!"
And until someone can show a better coin with a better strike, condition and eye appeal, that coin will set the standard for that date for what a high quality set must have whether it's in a PCGS holder or not.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
The name is LEE!
<< <i>The picture may scream Leo but its still just a picture. >>
I would agree with the above statement.
If you have other TPG holders and you have a PCGS Registry Set and your other TPG coins are so good,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,CROSS THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why wouldn't you IF they are worthy?
We all know this wether some will admit it or not
JMHO, GrandAm
I include NGC slabbed coins in one of my Registry sets. Where I have an image of the NGC coin, for dates where I already have the PCGS coin, I upload the image of the NGC coin, if I like it better than the PCGS coin.
No way for anyone other than me to know. But I can direct others to the site, when they would like to see the image of the NGC coin.
So far, no problem.
PCGS awards those tops sets with memorable awards annually.
PCGS also facilitates the completion of sets with free grading coupons upon a certain percentage of completion.
To allow another TPG coins into the sets would defeat the purpose that its a PCGS Registry and not an "anything" goes registry.
The name is LEE!
<< <i> << The picture may scream Leo but its still just a picture. >>
I would agree with the above statement.
If you have other TPG holders and you have a PCGS Registry Set and your other TPG coins are so good,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,CROSS THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why wouldn't you IF they are worthy? 99.9% of the time a coin is worth more in a PCGS holder than any other TPG Holder.
We all know this wether some will admit it or not
JMHO, GrandAm >>
Why should someone have to pay $50 just to get a coin into another company’s slab, especially when there is no guarantee that the second company will “get it right”?
Yes, if you are planning on selling, PCGS slabs have a history of sometimes fetching a higher price but if you are just building a personal collection for your own enjoyment then “buy the coin not the slab”.
<< <i>The picture may scream Leo but its still just a picture. >>
Okaaay! That came and went with alot of hocus-pocus and kryptonite!
Anybody else? Show me another picture of a 1956 Jefferson nickel that's equal or better than my coin. Now I know that JHF has an exceptional coin for that date but wouldn't it be nice to see it here and compare it to my coin? Oh JHF? Come out...come out from wherever you are? Has someone photograph all your nickels yet for all to see?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Wondercoin
<< <i>
<< <i> << The picture may scream Leo but its still just a picture. >>
I would agree with the above statement.
If you have other TPG holders and you have a PCGS Registry Set and your other TPG coins are so good,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,CROSS THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why wouldn't you IF they are worthy? 99.9% of the time a coin is worth more in a PCGS holder than any other TPG Holder.
We all know this wether some will admit it or not
JMHO, GrandAm >>
Why should someone have to pay $50 just to get a coin into another company’s slab, especially when there is no guarantee that the second company will “get it right”?
Yes, if you are planning on selling, PCGS slabs have a history of sometimes fetching a higher price but if you are just building a personal collection for your own enjoyment then “buy the coin not the slab”. >>
Absolutely! I totally agree!
By slabbed coins, crack them out, ponder over them, enjoy them and then take your losses when it comes time to either reslab or sell. No guarantees also means that what you once thought was a superb specimen may not be that superb when it comes time to either sell or regrade.
But then, thats not what this post is all about is it?
Its about whether PCGS will alow folks to showcase their coins, PCGS Graded or Not, in the PCGS registry.
My take is that its PCGS's tool and they only allow PCGS coins. Whether its to get participants to have more graded or not is not the point. PCGS only wants coins that they offer their grading guarantee on in their registry. That was, the value of the set, regardless of what some may think or feel, is backed by PCGS.
And Leo does have some exceptional nickels!
Or did I already say that?
What ever!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Why wouldn't you IF they are worthy? 99.9% of the time a coin is worth more in a PCGS holder than any other TPG Holder. >>
I must revise my original statement due to the fact that I got a NASTY "Ask a seller a question" e-mail via eBay from someone who read the statement I posted earlier.
He states:
<< <i>re your comment on the PCGS forum in which you wrote: >>
<< <i>99.9% of the time a coin is worth more in a PCGS holder than any other TPG Holder >>
<< <i>You have no credibility when you exaggerate so wildly and irresponsibly in order to make your point. >>
In his next message he states:
<< <i>I'm a dealer of almost 30 years, having worked for Heritage and David Hall, among others. I attend roughly 15 major coins shows and an equal number of auctions each year and handle PCGS and NGC coins, almost exclusively. I guarantee you I have a pretty good clue about prices and am actually quite intelligent - please don't hold my law degree against me. If you had said something like (even)as high as 80% I wouldn't have spoken up, but your 99.9% is ludicrous. >>
OK, I'll stand corrected as I was just making a point that PCGS coins sell for higher prices than other TPG coins.
Since the EXPERT Dealer who PM'd me agree's with 80% I'll go with that.
80% of the time PCGS Coins sell for more than other TPG coins.
Should this expert care to reveal himself I would be curious to know who he is as his eBay ID he messaged me thru has a feedback of (1).
Sounds like a "BIG TIME DEALER" to me with a feedback of (1).
JMHO, GrandAm
IMO, any coin in an NGC slab that brings close to PCGS Price Guide money would probably have brought much more money if it had been in a PCGS Slab.
The name is LEE!
My #1 passion is EISENHOWER Dollars. Price PCGS MS66 or better Clad IKE's and then price other TPG coins in the same grade. PCGS Coins sell for more,,,,MUCH more. Often 2 or 3 times the price of other TPG coins.
My concern is that my sets are not diminished by having coins of other TPG companies being allowed in the PCGS Registry when these coins are not equal in quality to PCGS coins.
This is soley my opinion and may or may not represent the opinions held by others.
GrandAm
<< <i>Leo: You will have your chance to see JHF's 1956 nickels (both amazing coins). Once the Silver Roosie dime collection is sold off at FUN, 2009, the nickels will be next to go to the auction block... proabably sometime later next year.
Wondercoin >>
Who's taking the pictures? Heritage? Bowers and Merena? What an injustice if either handle the sale. Look at what Heritage did to the last collection they sold. Only about a dozon or two had quality pictures out of the entire collection. Teletrade's the better choice but do they do shows with someone's collection?
Between the two of you, I would think a great photographer from these boards could provide a nice portfolio for JHF to remember his set by. There's plenty of time yet. The Corso Collction is proudly displayed for all to see......why not JHF?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Andy has already alluded to adding images of coins in other holders to a PCGS registry set a couple of times. And another has confussed that they do, I certainly have. We're all aware of the fact that the the PCGS registrys are for PCGS graded coins only. But images can be added whether they reside in a PCGS holder or not.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Now back to the subject at hand.
Wondercoin
<< <i>
<< <i>The picture may scream Leo but its still just a picture. >>
I would agree with the above statement.
If you have other TPG holders and you have a PCGS Registry Set and your other TPG coins are so good,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,CROSS THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why wouldn't you IF they are worthy?
We all know this wether some will admit it or not
JMHO, GrandAm >>
Hi Gary
To address your concerns, is there another 1956 JN with a better strike then the one I've posted? Most likely! The coin above is already in a PCGS holder but they graded it MS65FS. Not my product but does it stand a chance for an upgrade, yes it does. But since most coins in the upper grades have less of a strike then my coin, what sense is there to have it upgraded? Because the coin speaks for itself with it's strike, condition and eye appeal, it's a waste of my time and money to have this coin and the many others I have, graded or upgraded. For those folks who can't see the forest for the trees............
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
...........does not sound like a waste of time or money to me.
What it does sound like is the possibility that the coin would not upgrade despite your opinions.
But thats not really the point of this thread. The real point whether or not PCGS should allow non-PCGS coins into their registry. My opinion is that they should not as I believe it adds value to their registry since everybody knows that PCGS can be a lot tougher on grades than NGC as a general opinion. Yes there are some exceptions to this but the general market respects the PCGS Label more than any other TPG.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Because the coin speaks for itself with it's strike, condition and eye appeal, it's a waste of my time and money to have this coin and the many others I have, graded or upgraded. >>
<< <i>From $90 to $600 for a $30 attempt and the fact that you truely believe its an MS66FS, >>
Leo,
I didn't check the price guide but I'll take Lee's word for it. From $90 to $600 sounds like a pretty DARN GOOD reason to me.
GrandAm