1972 Set: Not the way I'd start building a set.....

Dude2 · February 13, 2002 12:50AM

I couldn't help but notice in the 1972 Set Registry that someone is trying to complete a strictly 9 set.

<< <i>Owner's Comments: Bottom line: this set will be the premier 72 Topps set in existence, even Frank Bakka will covet the set once it is complete. The main difference between my set and all of the others...if it isn't a MINT 9, it doesn't go in, PERIOD! The other sets listed here are riddled w/ 8s. It may take me longer, but the All PSA 9 1972 Topps Set will be a reality some day. >>

Has it even occurred to this guy that perhaps Frank Bakka's goal is also to get as many 9's as possible and complete a set in the highest grade attainable? If I can assume by Frank's rating that he has half 8's and half 9's, then he has about 38% of the set graded 9, and the other guy has 3% of the set in 9 so far.

This public challenge, in my opinion, won't make this guy's collecting goals any easier. He's asking for trouble if you ask me. I guess I'll follow this and see what happens.

RayBShotz · February 13, 2002 1:08AM

Hey Frank,

38% to 3%

It's good to be king!

RayB69Topps

zardoz51 · February 13, 2002 1:09AM

I don't think that this guy is going to make too many friends with his fellow 72 set collectors. Let's face it, for the most part, they are a pretty tight bunch, but will turn upon a transgressor like a pack of wolves. They scare me.........

waitilltheytrytosell · February 13, 2002 1:50AM

Hey! At least he used the word riddled, rather than littered.

mcastaldi · February 13, 2002 1:59AM

Well. . .think of it this way. How does he expect to acquire his 9s?

If he elects to purchase them via dealers and/or eBay it will NOT be cheap.

If he is looking to submit them himself, it will be VERY tough as the best I have EVER done with a submission of 72s is to have 35% of the order come back as 9 NQ. So that means he'll have a lot of 8s.

If he intends to trade for them. . .as a general rule, he'll need to offer 3 or four PSA8s for each 9 he expects in return. That said, I already have three people lined up for my 9s and I trust each of them. While I would be open to offers, I do have a sense of loyalty to the people who have already proven trustworthy in trading.

Third. . .this guy shouldn't be so worried about catching Frank. He should be worried about catching Andy Montero who is also doing his 72 set in strictly PSA9 or higher - and is well ahead of this guy. Ask Andy how much patience it takes for building the set this way.

Sure it can be done. . .but if I had to guess, the top 5 people building this set will be at 100% and will have moved on to their 2nd or 3rd sets by the time this guy hits 50%.

I challenge him to find #782 - Stahl, #178 - Schaal IA, and #? - Padres Rookies in PSA9 NQ.

Mike

FB · February 13, 2002 2:32AM

Actually...

I've already emailed back and forth with the owner of this set. I wished him a lot of luck because we've dealt before and he's actually a good guy. If he wants to grab every 9 that he can off of eBay, Superior and other source he can, he'll eventually have a very nice 72 set costing six figures plus. Not sure who'll he'll sell to if he ever chooses.

The money I'll save by not winning any high dollar PSA 9's will go back into very nice raw cards that I'll continue to send in. Of the 270 PSA 9's so far in the set, I've received roughly 180 of them back in my own submissions. Much cheaper and much, much harder for anyone to snipe them away from me!

I don't think you'll see any fireworks from any sort of challenge. The 72 set is for my enjoyment, not my obsession. I'll continue to add 8's and 9's as I can (most 8's are still very pretty cards) and if anyone else gets close to 100% first you may see me throw in some 6's and 7's as well!!!! But, its a great bunch guys working on this set and I enjoy the comraderie more than the competition. If someone else takes the number 1 spot - so be it.

Mike... take a look at card #782 in John Constantino's set.

Zardoz... the 72 folks scare me too....

dude · February 13, 2002 3:27AM

First, due to an administration glitch, my ID this morning was Dude and then Dude2 an now it's back to dude. So, I'm the one that started this message in case you conspiracy theorists were in a frenzy trying to figure out what's going on.

A couple of comments. It's better to be on the inside looking out as opposed to the outside looking in. I can recall one person who was building graded sets and if he lost or got sniped, he got pretty hostile. This person has gone on to other interests because it starts to bring out the worst in everyone involved. People would run him up or escalate the bidding just to beat him just out of spite.

If this '72 Builder wants to know what it takes to be the king of a set, he can look at what happens in 1968 Topps bidding on the Gem Mint 10s and PSA 9 - 1 of 1's or 1 of 2's. The finest collection will be very impressive, but that collector will probably spend $200K-250K once it's all over (he's currently not on the registry).

Finally, I know Andy Montero very well. Great guy. Not only does he only collect 9's or 10's, they must be within 48/52 all around for him to even consider them. The backs have to be well centered too. A noble effort indeed, but as Mike said, there are some cards that are near impossible to find centered and then it has to be Mint.

Actually, I have a feeling I know who this '72 collector is. I once played in a sports collectors Fantasy Baseball League with him. I think he's now turned his energies into playing Fantasy Set Building.

I'm not going anywhere for a long time, so I'll just sit back and watch what happens.

FB · February 13, 2002 3:56AM

Dude,

You may be able to get away with this on the Message Board... But, if you ever decide to shill your own auctions on eBay then Danmarkel2 is not going to cut it.

69topps8 · February 13, 2002 7:37AM

I'll post a scan of the PSA 9 Stahl when I get home. I'm surprised that card has gotten so much attention. This card is a good example of the raw gems you can find at small local card shows if you're willing to dig through stacks of cards!

mcastaldi · February 13, 2002 9:36AM

69topps> The Stahl is tough because it's almost always off-center. Also. . .the dynamics of the population so far compared to the cards around it indicates it's one of the tougher cards in the set.

782 - Stahl - pop 3 in PSA8 & pop 1 in PSA9
Many of the cards close to that number in Series 6 have pops of zero in PSA9 (787-Reed, 784-Aspromonte, #783-Cain, etc) but these cards all have pops of 10 or more in PSA8 NQ. Of the last 15-20 cards in the set, only #786-Brinkman is close to this - and it has 2 in 8NQ and 4 in 9NQ.

Of the 6th Series, the Stahl is simply one of the toughest cards to find centered.
Another tough 6th Series card is Rick Monday (730) - 8 in 8NQ and zero in 9 NQ. When 8NQ's come to eBay you can't touch them for less than $40-45. And I've seen this card pull down as much as $70 in PSA8.

Another super-tough card is #4 - 1st Series checklist. Pop 1 in PSA8 and no 9s.

Mike

69topps8 · February 13, 2002 11:14AM

Here's the PSA 9 Stahl as well as the raw Schaal IA and Series 1 checklist from my set. I hope it doesn't gobble up too much space...

getupkid · February 13, 2002 3:31PM

John,

You need to submit your 72's and add them to the registry!! That is by far the nicest Schaal IA I've seen!! You must have dug long and hard for those, I've looked at my fair share of 72 sets and I haven't been able to find anything close to those 2 examples. You would really impress me if you break out with a scan of a centered Expos card.

EJ

69topps8 · February 13, 2002 3:54PM

EJ,

I assume you're referring to the Expos team card. Here it is. It's a bit off center but should net an '8'.

mcastaldi · February 13, 2002 10:48PM

I agree with Erik, that's the best Schaal IA I've seen. I recently picked on up that would have got me a 7. . .except it had a small surface wrinkle. That's the way it's been working with cards like that. I did recently submit a Series 1 checklist I think is easily an 8 and I think has a shot at a 9. We will see.

And from the way it looks, Erik is right. You need to start submitting these.

Mike

69topps8 · February 14, 2002 1:53AM

Too many cards and not enough money! I probably will grade them over time but I would definitely prioritize spending $1500 or so for a high grade 72 set over grading out a few hundred commons. I did recently grade some of my better duplicates and was happy to receive quite a few 9's. Now I'll be sending in those same cards out of my set so I can sell or trade the duplicates. Completing this set in graded form will be a long process though. Especially since I'm also grading out my 1968-75 sets with most of the emphasis on '69, '71 and '73.

I will be sending in several of the low pop cards with my next submission.