Cabinet Friction ?

19Lyds

Will somebody please define "cabinet friction" for me?

DNADave

Back when coins were stored loose in felt lined cabinet drawers, each time the drawer was opened or closed, the coins would slide back and forth. This would actually rub off toning for example and over time resulted in "cabinet friction"

NHSBaseball

What DNADave said.

OKbustchaser

<< <i>Will somebody please define "cabinet friction" for me? >>



The excuse used when grading an AU coin as MS.

RyGuy

<< <i>

<< <i>Will somebody please define "cabinet friction" for me? >>



The excuse used when grading an AU coin as MS. >>

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OKbustchaser

<< <i>I happen to love cabinet friction and do not think that an MS coin should be dinged for it, it isn't wear from circulation that caused it just storage conditions and the fact that in the good ole days that is what collectors had happen to them when they put their coins away for safe keeping, so to me it is original conditions. >>



Rub is rub regardless of whether it occured in a felt lined drawer or in someone's pocket. By the same token, just because you receive a coin in change from MickeyD's doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't MS.

Wear (or lack of) determines grade not whether or not a coin ever actually saw circulation.

stman

<< <i>I happen to love cabinet friction and do not think that an MS coin should be dinged for it, it isn't wear from circulation that caused it just storage conditions and the fact that in the good ole days that is what collectors had happen to them when they put their coins away for safe keeping, so to me it is original conditions. >>



Ah, the dealers got to you eh? I agree with the bustchaser.

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<< <i>

<< <i>I happen to love cabinet friction and do not think that an MS coin should be dinged for it, it isn't wear from circulation that caused it just storage conditions and the fact that in the good ole days that is what collectors had happen to them when they put their coins away for safe keeping, so to me it is original conditions. >>



Rub is rub regardless of whether it occured in a felt lined drawer or in someone's pocket. By the same token, just because you receive a coin in change from MickeyD's doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't MS.

Wear (or lack of) determines grade not whether or not a coin ever actually saw circulation. >>


Bingo! I completely agree. I hate it when people give the excuse that the coin is really mint state because it was never used in commerce! How do you even prove that?

19Lyds

Thanks for the replies.

Does anybody have a good example of "cabinet friction" they would like to share?

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pmac

Obviously this should be an argument for TPGs to mull over. As has been said so many times before, if the coin is attractive to you... Each to his own.

19Lyds

<< <i>Obviously this should be an argument for TPGs to mull over. As has been said so many times before, if the coin is attractive to you... Each to his own. >>



Maybe, maybe not but since the term does come up with some regard to some classic coins, its diagnostics should be understood.

OKbustchaser

<< <i>As to cabinet friction being REAL wear take a REAL MS classic coin that has cabinet friction on one or two high points and no where else, one that is clearly MS when it comes to luster, strike but clearly only due to storage which is obvious because the cabinet friction is only on one side and clearly from rubbing, no hairlines of any sort. I will take this coin and call it an MS all day long and I welcome a good argument! >>



The definition of mint state is "as minted--no visible wear. (in other words, no rub regardless of the source) You CAN call it MS all day long and often the TPG's will agree with you. This is where market grading differs from reality resulting in what should actually be called AU-6X rather than MS-6X.

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ziggy29

Something that turns into "rub" when you go to sell it.

OKbustchaser

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>As to cabinet friction being REAL wear take a REAL MS classic coin that has cabinet friction on one or two high points and no where else, one that is clearly MS when it comes to luster, strike but clearly only due to storage which is obvious because the cabinet friction is only on one side and clearly from rubbing, no hairlines of any sort. I will take this coin and call it an MS all day long and I welcome a good argument! >>



The definition of mint state is "as minted--no visible wear. (in other words, no rub regardless of the source) You CAN call it MS all day long and often the TPG's will agree with you. This is where market grading differs from reality resulting in what should actually be called AU-6X rather than MS-6X. >>



I can't really disagree with the above statement, but I will say from my point of view I rather have a coin that is called ms by PCGS that has a little cabinet friction original/natural toning, original surfaces never cleaned then something that has been dipped bright white. >>



There I agree with you whole-heartedly. I would prefer that coin over a dipped white coin, too. I would simply prefer that PCGS would grade it based on what it really is rather than based on what it would sell for.

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19Lyds

I would like to see some photographs of "cabinet friction" and I;ll tell you why.

Later.........

Coinhog

I have some coins that i keep in an antique coin cabinet with felt lined drawers. You would have to slam the drawer pretty quicly to get the coin to slide. Thus you would have to do this repeatedly to get so called cabinet friction. So for me , this whole notion of cabinet friction is BUNK. It is wear, plain and simple. Having said that if I likke the coin, I will pay a premium for it regardless of the wear (cabinet friction) it has on it.

I firmly believe that some enterprising coin dealer "coined" the concept and phrase of cabinet friction to help get an MS price for an AU coin.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

an excuse to call lightly circulated coins as uncirculated.

Baley

the term cabinet friction is not limited to felt lined drawers in antique cabinets, but more generally refers to that very minor wear on the high points and rims due to being handled by collectors, placed into and out of holders, on surfaces, over the course of time. It generally refers to older coins, on a new coin that much rub is simply wear.

Yes, imo the coin is technically uncirculated and I have no problem with a tpg valuing the coin at 60, 61, or even 62 if the rest of the coin (luster, strike, eye appeal) are there.

RWB

Wear is wear is wear.....some is just more elegant that others.

19Lyds

Good response!

So....cabinet friction would be considered "rub" on one side of the coin?

Anybody got any pictures?