Does Manny Have Two (2) Chances To Get A World Series Ring?
JackWESQ
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in Sports Talk
Listening to Dan Patrick interview Terry Francona this morning, it appears that if the Red Sox win the World Series, Manny would get a World Series ring and share. Can anybody confirm this? Patrick mentioned that in 2004, Nomar Garciappara received a ring and share even though he was traded at the deadline to the Cubs.
/s/ JackWESQ
P.S. Two (2) chances as I would imagine that Manny gets a ring if the Dodgers win the World Series.
/s/ JackWESQ
P.S. Two (2) chances as I would imagine that Manny gets a ring if the Dodgers win the World Series.
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I would think the Red Sox would want to give Manny the same treatment.
How could you, in good conscience reward someone who clearly dogged the team on more than one occassion?
I'm still trying to figure out of Gagme got a ring. Somebody please tell me he didn't.
<< <i> Given the circumstances under the demise of # 24, I doubt he'd get a ring. The WS $$ for Nomar was voted on by the players and he got a full share and a ring. Not likely # 24 will be afforded the same courtesy. Besides, # 24 can't spend the $$ he has now. It's one thing to be traded, it's another to become a pariah to your former team mates, fans and management. Have we fogotten "I'm sick of you, you're sick of me"???
How could you, in good conscience reward someone who clearly dogged the team on more than one occassion?
I'm still trying to figure out of Gagme got a ring. Somebody please tell me he didn't. >>
Great post...That's kind of what I thought happened. Nomar was a class act guy and greatly respected and I'm very happy he got a ring. As far as Manny, he has as much of a chance of getting a ring from the Sox as Scott Boras has a chance of becoming person of the year in sports. Not gonna happen.
Sorry to be the potential bearer of bad news, but according to this post, it appears that Eric Gagne did receive a World Series ring as a result of being on the 2007 Boston Red Sox, to wit:
<< <i>Surprisingly, Gagne appears to be happy to be back in Boston in this story in the Boston Herald this morning. He also appears to think he had something positive to do with the Red Sox winning the World Series:
"I couldn't wait for this," said Gagne, who received his 2007 World Series ring last night from Sox traveling secretary Jack McCormick. "I went through all the negative stuff and I came out of it a world champion. That's exactly why I took the trade (from Texas). I knew it was going to be a challenge, but it was awesome."
It's almost cute, in a tragic way. A man has to have pride, but I'm not seeing what Gagne did to make his story sound like a personal tale of woe and triumph over evil. >>
/s/ JackWESQ
<< <i>Dear MCMLVTopps,
Sorry to be the potential bearer of bad news, but according to this post, it appears that Eric Gagne did receive a World Series ring as a result of being on the 2007 Boston Red Sox, to wit:
<< <i>Surprisingly, Gagne appears to be happy to be back in Boston in this story in the Boston Herald this morning. He also appears to think he had something positive to do with the Red Sox winning the World Series:
"I couldn't wait for this," said Gagne, who received his 2007 World Series ring last night from Sox traveling secretary Jack McCormick. "I went through all the negative stuff and I came out of it a world champion. That's exactly why I took the trade (from Texas). I knew it was going to be a challenge, but it was awesome."
It's almost cute, in a tragic way. A man has to have pride, but I'm not seeing what Gagne did to make his story sound like a personal tale of woe and triumph over evil. >>
/s/ JackWESQ >>
SICKENING, just SICKENING!! What a monstrous insult to professional baseball when a SLUG like Gagme would perform so pathetically for such a short period of time, yet be rewarded in such a manner. I'm trying not to throw up.
<< <i>SICKENING, just SICKENING!! What a monstrous insult to professional baseball when a SLUG like Gagme would perform so pathetically for such a short period of time, yet be rewarded in such a manner. I'm trying not to throw up. >>
How do you really feel about Gagne? lol
Seriously now, Gagne gave you guys 8 to 9 quality innings last year. lol
Also, I know people will always bash Gagne for being accused of steriods, but remember he was playing hurt for some time on the Dodgers and ended up coming up with another injury because of that. Gagne never bounced back from his last surgery. I think back then the Dodgers were being very poorly handled by their medical staff and their coaching staff back then.
Any team that signed or signs Gagne knows of his many surgeries in the past. Boston knew it and it was a gamble that didn't work.
<< <i>Given the circumstances under the demise of # 24, I doubt he'd get a ring. The WS $$ for Nomar was voted on by the players and he got a full share and a ring. Not likely # 24 will be afforded the same courtesy. Besides, # 24 can't spend the $$ he has now. It's one thing to be traded, it's another to become a pariah to your former team mates, fans and management. Have we fogotten "I'm sick of you, you're sick of me"??? >>
Hey Al, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here. I think Manny will get the same courtesy that Nomar received. We all know that Manny deserved to get his butt kicked out of town, but he's still got some friends on the team and it will be an opportunity for the team and management to take the high road. Giving him his share and his ring might not and should not feel right, but not giving him the ring and the money when you have a history of doing so for others will just look childish and selfish.
Also, we shouldn't forget that before Nomar was traded there were similar problems. Yes, he was still a fan favorite, but Nomar was a pariah in the clubhouse. He was bitter, he was jealous of other people's contracts, and he was distancing himself from his teammates. Let's not forget the images of the entire team watching the game from the top steps of the dugout while Nomar sat on the bench by himself. He was clearly unhappy in Boston. I won't go so far as to say he quit on the Red Sox like Manny did, but he was far from being the Golden Boy in the end.
<< <i>
<< <i>Given the circumstances under the demise of # 24, I doubt he'd get a ring. The WS $$ for Nomar was voted on by the players and he got a full share and a ring. Not likely # 24 will be afforded the same courtesy. Besides, # 24 can't spend the $$ he has now. It's one thing to be traded, it's another to become a pariah to your former team mates, fans and management. Have we fogotten "I'm sick of you, you're sick of me"??? >>
Hey Al, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree here. I think Manny will get the same courtesy that Nomar received. We all know that Manny deserved to get his butt kicked out of town, but he's still got some friends on the team and it will be an opportunity for the team and management to take the high road. Giving him his share and his ring might not and should not feel right, but not giving him the ring and the money when you have a history of doing so for others will just look childish and selfish.
Also, we shouldn't forget that before Nomar was traded there were similar problems. Yes, he was still a fan favorite, but Nomar was a pariah in the clubhouse. He was bitter, he was jealous of other people's contracts, and he was distancing himself from his teammates. Let's not forget the images of the entire team watching the game from the top steps of the dugout while Nomar sat on the bench by himself. He was clearly unhappy in Boston. I won't go so far as to say he quit on the Red Sox like Manny did, but he was far from being the Golden Boy in the end. >>
Hey Chad, gotta do a back at ya. Manny INTENTIONALLY dogged the team. Nomar did not. Nomar had issues and a bit of an attitude, but I doubt any players went to team owners and demand a trade. Several players did in fact go to the team owners and ask for # 24 to go. It isn't about the high road or low road, the guy INTENTIONALLY hurt the ball club. THAT should NOT be rewarded.
I say no money and no ring. AND, I can almost guarantee major boos in Fenway if LA and Boston go toe to toe.
And here's quote from the story for those that don't want to read the whole article:
A couple of days later, [some time in late July of 2004] while the team was in Baltimore, Red Sox officials say Garciaparra told members of the team's training staff and Terry Francona that he'd need to miss considerable time in August and September because he was still injured. One of the team's trainers says Garciaparra also said his top priority was not playing, but getting healthy for November, when he'd be a free agent. Alarmed, Francona called Epstein to tell him about his conversations with Garciaparra. The Red Sox had already begun exploring potential moves, and this revelation only firmed Epstein's resolve to deal with the situation. "After that conversation," Henry said, "Theo, Larry and I met, and Theo said … that we needed somebody to play shortstop."
A couple days later we had Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz and Nomar was in Chicago. It's nothing Manny hasn't done several times over, but in my opinion, Nomar was quitting on the team during a crucial period in Red Sox history because he wanted more money and more years from another club . . . and the similarities are, in my mind, pretty evident.
I fully understand your point and its merits. In my mind, at some point, MLB has to stop rewarding the actions of players who simply cause such an acidic atmosphere within the organization that the team owner's are forced to get rid of that player. Surely nobody thinks the Red Sox would have gotten rid of # 24 for Jason Bay!! It had to be a pretty painful decision to do what they did. Furthermore, if the problems that # 24 brought to the team were NOT true, they would not have traded him, that would be insanity. Give up the player who is regarded as perhaps the greatest right hand batter EVER? No way. This guy has 8 more post season homers than Reggie Jackson!! That is one helluva record!!
Clearly Nomar had problems and an attitude, that was then, this is now. I think the Red Sox gave # 24 all and more that he asked for. They gave him everything but the damn Citgo sign in Kenmore Square. How the hell can you be unhappy making almost $125k per game, fans drooling over you, blah, blah. What the hell causes a man to become a pariah to an organization that has treated him so well?? He dissed John Henry, claiming he was unfair, blah, blah...that sealed his fate. He didn't even have the courtesy to show up at the WH for the president honoring the T-E-A-M'-S accomplishment. That's the problem, # 24 lives in Mannyville, only a very few get to go there, maybe Ortiz and Lowell. He's got to be a very lonely dude off field. Jillions of $$, but no close friends. Just my guess, but I'll bet he is one lonely dude. He can rent all of Disneyland for a night, but no close buds to enjoy the fun. Money doesn't have the same meaning to this guy that it means to you and me.
Let us look at what #24 was and what he is today. He became a medicore player this year with an attitude. Phony knee problems, (two MRIs proved this, one on each knee), shoving a 64 year old man to the floor because he couldn't pony up the tix to a Yankee's game, the slap he gave Youk in the dugout, his turtle like "hustling". Then the "I'm sick of you, you're sick of me". Where the hell did that come from. # 24 had a separate dressing area in the clubhouse. Then the comment "the Red Sox don't deserve a player of my calibre". Oh, really? Now, he probably can legitimately be credited with single-handedly having the Dodgers in the playoffs. I saw him score from first base recently, the guy ran like Ellsbury...where was all that hustle when he wore the Red and White uniform? He has hit more homers in two months than he did in the previous 4 with the Red Sox. He has become the Charlie Hustle of the Dodgers, none of which he displayed in Boston. Why? Who knows, I don't think even # 24 knows. He just wakes up one day and decides...ya know, I think I'll be a real pain in the ass again and see what kinda crap I can throw in the gears. He is dumb like a fox. It's all a game to him, kids see this BS and try to emulate those they idolize. When you are a player of # 24's stature, you have an implied responsibility to play the game to the best of your ability, not become a selfish dog. I suspect those in LA who've bought the blue doorags, dredlock hair pieces, etc, etc, will get their bubbles burst in short order when # 24 leaves them for greener pasture.
No doubt if the Red Sox win the WS, he'll get a ring and more $$$. He'll laugh at the organization, the fans and MLB. He'll probably throw his ring in a sock drawer, where he keeps his uncashed checks. My opinion is he should get nada, my position will not change, not today, next week or 2025.
Reward those who play like professionals, not like sand lot punks.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Unfortunately Grote, you miss the point. By saying "even with all the other problems he creates" is EXACTLY why he is gone and YOU want to condone what he did. How can you possibly justify giving this guy carte blanche to do whatever he wants to do? Baseball is a team sport, not a Manny sport. Allowing him to do whatever the hell he wants, only enables him to do more of the lunacy he did to his team mates, Red Sox ownership and worst of all, the fans. You cannot allow one man to become the team and everyone has to tippy toe around this whacko. How do you know all the problems he created? Surely you don't think shoving a 64 year old man to the floor overtickets is ok in your book He should have been suspended...but management didn't want to upset # 24...thus, allowing him to do more crazy crap, like slapping Youklis in the face after the Coco vs Rays incident.
Perhaps you didn't watch many Red Sox games. With the exception of several Saturday games, I watched every one, including West coast games. Far too many times did # 24 CLEARLY not give his best efforts to the goals and aspirations of the TEAM.
When he's in the right mood, whatever that is, indeed, the man can hit the ball, no question about that. Isn't it plausible and logical to realize had # 24 not acted as he had, not only towards the end, but throughout his Red Sox time, that management would not have gotten rid of him? I cannot believe you would want a player on your team that did a fraction of what # 24 did.
BTW, he's not exactly the clutch hitter you may think he is, he strikes out a LOT.
I'm done with this thread, I've said enough, it's time to let this go.
Um, no, I'm not missing your "point" at all...and I never said I'm condoning his actions or his clubhouse behavior (funny, though, that when the Sox were winning WITH Manny, his antics were usually viewed by fans as "Manny being Manny"). But it is rather riduculous and even absurd to deny the fact that this guy was not a key factor in bringing two world titles to the city of Boston. Any truly objective Boston or baseball fan will tell you just as much. Or that he is one of the best hitters in the game today. It is also no coincidence that the Dodgers with Manny are in the NLCS right now, either. It's obvious that your deep-seated hatred towards him as an individual is clouding your judgement of him as a player. But you don't have to be a fan of the player (and I am not, personally) to appreciate his talents.
The bottom line here is that Manny Ramirez is not the first self-centered, primma donna athlete to feed his ego or act out at the expense of his team (TO anyone?). That is the reality of sports today. In this case, though, Manny has some hardware and the city of Boston and his former teammates have two WS rings, and Manny was a key contributor on those championship teams. The souring and subsequent disintegration of his relationship with the Boston Red Sox does not negate those contributions.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
SEASON TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
2008 Bos 100 365 66 109 22 1 20 68 52 86 1 0 .299 .398 .529 .927
It looks to me that he certainly made his contribution to helping the Sox get some W's. Manny played for 7 complete seasons in Boston and a partial one this year and they knew they were getting some extra baggage when they signed him back in 2000/2001 right?
Be happy Sox Fans you had Manny for those years and got those Two World Series Championships, not to mention, no more talk of the Bambino Curse. Like it or not, Manny was a big time reason behind those titles and also be happy that your team has the depth to still be champions.
Brian
Jeff Kent was with the Blue Jays in 1992 until he was traded to the Mets in August, but ended up getting a World Series ring from the Blue Jays after the season. Kent has said in interviews that he never wears the ring, and attaches no sentiment to it since he did nothing to earn it.
WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25
Thanks for the education on Jeff Kent. Maybe he should "throw" it on ebay. I can see such a ring easily exeeding five (5) figures.
/s/ JackWESQ
/s/ JackWESQ
<< <i> Rich,
Thanks for the education on Jeff Kent. Maybe he should "throw" it on ebay. I can see such a ring easily exeeding five (5) figures.
/s/ JackWESQ
>>
Wouldn't that be great if Kent sold the ring and dontated it to one of his charities.
<< <i>Well, ESPN is reporting that the Boston Red Sox players have voted to pay Manny Ramirez two-thirds' playoff share. And if it comes to pass, perhaps a World Series ring?
/s/ JackWESQ >>
This doesn't surprise me but it is interesting nonetheless. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall during the discussion on if he should get any and how much he should get. Won't he also get a playoff share from the Dodgers?