Ganz on gold seizure

CaptHenway

linque

fc

It seems they key difference between then and now is that we actually
had gold in our circulating coins which the govt has power over.

Now it would be an outright seizure which would see many citizens
basically raise up arms to stop. After all, I have noticed many gold
owners also own guns....

just a ramble.

RWB

Mr. Ganz, a highly respected numismatist and attorney, has written an excellent, high-level summary. However, it is impossible to understand the gold nationalization situation from this type of overview. To give members a small sample of the subtleties, note the following ----

Prior to gold nationalization in 1933 the Treasury though it knew how much gold was in circulation in coin form. Afterward, Treasury admitted that its estimates were too great by nearly 50% and there was no accurate knowledge of how much gold coin remained in circulation and how much had been converted to jewelry, exported or otherwise unaccountable. All they knew was how much was in bank, mint and FRB vaults, and small amounts in private holdings from the Hoover administration lists of gold withdrawals (approx. 10,000 instances).

After nationalization, Treasury made few overt actions to take gold coin from individuals. Most of the gold reported as turned in came from banks with individual voluntary surrender being much smaller. Ordinary people understood how serious the situation was and wanted to help, but many also wanted to keep the few gold coins they owned. Most Secret Service investigations were initiated by disgruntled relatives (grudges), estate lawyers who wanted their fee, and smuggling investigations. The matter was of so little importance at the time that Secretary of the Treasury Morgenthau never issued guidance to agents on numismatic gold, even after being specifically asked by multiple regional officers. Instead, agents relied on the Smithsonian, ANA members, published price guides and guesswork. From 1934–1960 the total gold coin recovery was about $12 million.

In 1935 there was a suggestion by Louis M. Howe that some of the gold coins be offered to coin collectors at a their numismatic value. Morgenthau rejected the idea because he felt it would look bad for the government to have paid $20 for a double eagle, then resell it for $35 a few years later. Morgenthau did approve Howe’s suggestion to start minting proof coins for collectors and this led directly to the 1936 proof production.

storm888

In the past 80-years, the govt has gotten a little better
at avoiding the passage of laws that cannot be enforced.

Almost NOBODY would turn in their gold, and a door-to-door
search is just not practical.

roadrunner

This may have hit Ganz's radar screen in the past week, but we've been discussing it early on in the main gold thread. Considering that if the US owned Gold reserves were still at 8,100 tons we might have $150B worth of gold. That is still a drop in the bucket and it is unlikely that anywhere near that quantity would come from private or public hands even if all of it was turned in.

roadrunner

mrearlygold

<< <i>In the past 80-years, the govt has gotten a little better
at avoiding the passage of laws that cannot be enforced.

Almost NOBODY would turn in their gold, and a door-to-door
search is just not practical.

>>




Agree on point one. Point two makes me laugh. You have more confidence in these idiots than most do. I bet there would be a line of people trying to turn in their Sac's .

Far as a search, well, if it's illegal to possess, it's illegal to buy and sell. Hence what would you do with it? A tiny percentage of people would make it disappear, but for the most part it would be kind of like having a box of authentic Havana Monte Cristo's. Well, better than that but you get my drift.

The government will do whatever it wants to do and the majority of people will buy whatever it is they are selling.

mrearlygold

<< <i>This may have hit Ganz's radar screen in the past week, but we've been discussing it early on in the main gold thread. Considering that if the US owned Gold reserves were still at 8,100 tons we might have $150B worth of gold. That is still a drop in the bucket and it is unlikely that anywhere near that quantity would come from private or public hands even if all of it was turned in.

roadrunner >>



Yeah but think of what they could conficate "other than the gold" from people who break the law.

CaptHenway

There have been many cases where the U.S. government has seized large quantities of cash with no probably cause other than the allegation that the possession of large quantities of cash was somehow "suspicious" in nature.

Deadhorse

<< <i>Yeah but think of what they could conficate "other than the gold" from people who break the law. >>



I really think a series of abuses like that would have them ultimately collecting bullets at supersonic speeds.

They should really reconsider than to even think about it in Texas or Alaska. We have over 300 millon guns down here. Many of them Military grade.

Like Yamamoto told his superiors; "An invasion of the US mainland would be suicide. There would be a gun behind every blade of grass."

People are finally getting fed up and that could well be a tipping point.

Just not practical. They could oulaw it's possesion, but those Congress critters would be defeated in the next election.

It doesn't seem to be in the cards and people would still trade it on the black marlet, at even more premiums.

SaorAlba

<< <i>

The government will do whatever it wants to do and the majority of people will buy whatever it is they are selling. >>



ALA the so referred to "Patriot Act", which is not patriotic, and in fact reeks of subjugation of the masses.

ttown

Oh I think people are getting fed up with the current group of people that are repersenting us in office both Dem and Rep. Who would have thought they could do a land grab on your land/house to sell it to the Walmarts of the world just a few years ago. Why hasn't congress addressed this they have the power and it should be overwelming if they are protecting the private citzen IMO. If not time for the bums to go.

FullStrike

Sam should demand everyone turn in their zinc. I'd be on the phone in a minute sayin come get em chumps. I gotta have $6 or $7 bucks worth easy - just ain't worth messin with.

57loaded

i think the "turn in price" would need to be whatever the Treasury is valuating their gold and quantity of such.

they can seize mine at $8k an ounce.

Deadhorse

<< <i>i think the "turn in price" would need to be whatever the Treasury is valuating their gold and quantity of such.

they can seize mine at $8k an ounce. >>





I'll be holding out for $12K.

Non-taxable, of course.

mrearlygold

<< <i>
Now it would be an outright seizure which would see many citizens
basically raise up arms to stop. After all, I have noticed many gold
owners also own guns....

just a ramble. >>