Canadian Colonial Token question

rwyarmch

In the 5th edition of the Charlton catalog, the description of PC-2A now indicates
that this token was not a mule of the 1842 and 1837 Province of Canada pennies because
"the obverse die is different than the 1842 obverse die used to make PC-2B". But Charlton
goes on to say that there are extensive varieties of PC-2B "due to the retouching of dies".
suggesting the new conclusion may have required quite a bit of work by some Canadian expert(s).

An example of the "medal" version of of this token, PC-2A1, which the catalogue lists as produced in 1842,
is shown below from the Heritage sale archives.

My question is, what is PC-2A1? If it is not a mule of known dies, does that make it a fantasy piece or
perhaps a trial piece from a die that never made it to production? Or is it still a mule of some sort?

ColinCMR

Does Charlton list references yet?

1960NYGiants

Excellent question. I believe that it should still be considered a mule. A different obverse die was used for this issue and struck a sufficient quantity such that when the 1842 issue came about this die was no longer available (worn out, retired, etc.)

The 6th edition of Charlton also states: "PC2A1 was possibly struck by W.J. Taylor from the Soho Mint dies."

Corteau apparently listed 17 varieties in his study of the 1842 dated PC-2B and only 1 for 1837, while Willey listed 12 / 1. At this time I don't know who catalogued 1st.


From a post I made regarding the CNA convention this past July:

"... For those of you that have the 6th edition of charlton’s Canadian Colonial Tokens, on the bottom of page 189 there is a comment about a Taylor example of a token selling on eBay certified as silver-plated. Well, I bought that piece back in 2003. I brought it with me for the club meeting for show and tell. Immediately, two researchers asked to examine it. Their findings are incomplete at this time but they both agree that it is not what ICCS certified it to be. The weight is only 16.32g instead of 23+ and under a microscope the surface does not look plated. It rings OK but not like a plated piece would. It is also medal alignment vs. coinage. Instead they believe it to be a pewter example of the original striking and thus scarcer than originally thought. They will perform more research."



As of late summer the research has confirmed that my specimen was struck from the same dies as the copper pieces. Nothing has been found that explains the off metal strike. I also learned that a second ICCS certified "silver plated" example is known. But no measurements are available.

Research is ongoing.

rwyarmch

Thanks Gene. So copper, pewter, nickel and brass examples exist! My understanding is that
nickel is particularly tough on dies so your theory makes a lot of sense to me. I find it interesting that
there is no reference in Charlton ed. 6 to the "author" of this latest research!?

I'm getting out my lenses again to see if I can detect the difference between those obverse dies!

Bob

BCNumismatics

W.J. Taylor was a very unscrupulous diesinker from England.He also struck a Halfpenny traders' currency token that he had shipped to Melbourne,Victoria (Australia) in 1851.It is no surprised that he mismatched dies,& struck mules in Proof.

Aidan.

lordmarcovan

I don't know and don't care about the variety, but I sure enjoyed looking at that piece.

I have always wanted to see one of those in Red Unc, and that is the closest I have seen.

That, and one of those "bouquet" pieces. There's a type I have in mind, and I used to have one on my vest, but I can't find it now, nor can I find it in Krause.

BCNumismatics

Robertson,
There's a lot of Canadian traders' currency tokens that are listed only in Haxby & Willey,& in Charlton,but not in Krause.Both the 'Front View' & Bouquet Sous are definitely the case.

Krause only lists basic types for Canadian,Australian,& New Zealand traders' currency tokens.

Aidan.

lordmarcovan

One of these days I need to bite the bullet and get the Charlton.

That, and the Spink Scottish/Irish book.

BCNumismatics

Robertson,
The Spink Scots,Irish,& Islands coin catalogue lists very few traders' currency tokens (Isle of Man,Guernsey,& Jersey).If you want to look up English,Irish,Scots,Ulster,& Welsh traders' currency tokens in a specialised way,there is the 2004 edition of the Dalton & Hamer catalogue (which is expensive as hell!).

Australia does have a coin catalogue,which has also listed traders' currency tokens,in past editions.

Aidan.

rwyarmch

Well, I've managed to convince myself that the 1837's below are from the same die (right down to the
crack on the sidewalk which Gene's pewter example also exhibits). Plus they differ from the 1842's below
particularly in terms of the bank doorway. Finally, the 1842's seems to differ from each other in terms
of the fencing and doorway details, consistent with the retouching of dies. I'm off to beat something else
to death!