I could use some help on this one! 1797

BillyKingsley

Hello folks, I aquired this on the BST a little while ago. All the information I have is what's written on the holder.

But, I got to doing some research, and I don't think this is actually from Belgium. I think it's likely Austria or the Holy Roman Empire, aka, Germany. Francis II was Emporor to both of them, and more)

Belgium, in 1797, had not actually won it's independence yet after declaring they wanted it in the 1780s.

I also can't quite figure out the wording. I've gotten Francis II, and I know Rex means King. But I'm pretty clueless on everything else. I think the string around the reverse may be cities or principalities.

These are scanned shots so they aren't great!




A couple of guesses-"FLAN"=Flanders, "BRAB"=Brandenburg, "AVST"=Austria on the reverse, "BOH=Bohemia on the obverse?

Even though I've had this coin for months now, and I've spent at least several hours studying it, I just noticed tonight that it has things around the edge. It appears to have several stars and also some words, but I cannot make out what they are. I see no denomination listed, so perhaps that? Either way, the edges are pretty well worn and whatever was there originally, doesn't appear to be there in it's entirety now.

Thanks for any help anyone is able to provide! This was my second BST Transaction on the board, and at the time was my oldest coin, although it is no longer holding that title, since I bought a Roman from LordM

Billy

ajaan

Austrian Netherlands. 'C' mintmark is Prague. This was what is now present day Belgium.

newbiecollector

For some reason I just knew Don would know this!

lordmarcovan

It's a kronenthaler. The 'Shroom nailed the rest.

Here's mine, from the Holey Coin Vest.

BillyKingsley

Ahh, thank you! I didn't think it was Belgium Proper. I'm kind of...hmm, I guess you could say Anal-retentive when it comes to statistics, and listing this as Belgium in my files just wasn't sitting right with me.

Rob, what DON'T you have? LOL!

lordmarcovan

I've got a little bit of everything, at least in the holey stuff. There's quite a bit I still lack, though!

Only so much will fit on a jingly holey coin garment!

lordmarcovan

BTW, they're cool big old coins. I love mine. Yours looks decent too.

I can't help but wonder if the criscross scratches on the obverse of yours are actually pre-strike adjustment marks or not. Sorta looks like it.

BillyKingsley

You're going to have to upgrade to a Holey Coin Sweater soon, and use the sleeves

The scratches were speculated on by the person I bought it from, as you suggest. They look like they've been there a VERY long time.

I'm still looking for help on the abbreviations around the outsides!

lordmarcovan

FRANCISCUS II Dei Gratia Roman Imperat Semper(?) Augustus(?) GERmany HIE (Jerusalem) HUNgary BOHemia REX

Franz II, by the Grace of God, (Holy Roman Emperor?) ... of Germany, Jerusalem, Hungary, and Bohemia, King.

Something like that. Not sure of the full Latin text, but I think that's the gist of it.

Sapyx

On the reverse, we have the continuation of the emperor's titles, shrinking in prestige and narrowing down eventually to the region the coin was intended to circulate in: ARCH AVST (Archduke of Austria) DVX BVRG LOTH BRAB (Duke of Burgundy, Lorraine and Brabant) COM FLAN (Count of Flanders).


<< <i>But, I got to doing some research, and I don't think this is actually from Belgium... Belgium, in 1797, had not actually won it's independence yet after declaring they wanted it in the 1780s. >>


Don't forget, the older Krause catalogues had the annoying tendency to sort coins by the names the countries are known by today, rather than the names the countries were known by at the time the coin was struck. Coins of the Austrian Netherlands were probably filed under "Belgium" in the earlier editions of the catalogue.

BillyKingsley

Thanks Rob and Sapyx. Time to add comment in Excel