EAC and JRCS Grading vs TPG's

STONE

Ok, as we all know the Sheldon Grading Scale (1-70) was created by a very well known Copper collector and subsequently became the mainstream grading scale of present day coin grading. What the Sheldon grading scale doesn't do for all coins in all series is denote lower grades for problem coins, as the EAC (Early American Coppers) does with their Half-Cents and Large Cents (as far as my knowledge of EAC grading goes). Therefore, an EAC member may grade a Large Cent AU-50 when a TPG will grade the same coin MS-62. This descrepency in grading can bring about confusion to non EAC members/collectors, and may then bring about some questionable validity to how that EAC member graded the coin versus how the dependable TPG graded the coin.

Lately, I've found that the same or similar instance can be seen with JRCS (John Reich Collectors Society) type coins (Early Bust Silver) and their style of grading as opposed to TPG's. JRCS style grading doesn't seem to go to the extreme that the EAC grading does (reason like surface imperfections taken as a larger factor for EAC than JRCS), but there seems to be a direct distinction between raw coins graded by JRCS type dealers and those housed in TPG holders. What I'm generally seeing is that raw JRCS coins are graded one or two grades higher (generally in dealer inventories) than what an (almost) identical coin in a TPG holder would grade. (Hypothetical: A JRCS dealers grades a raw 1833 Bust Dime as VF-20, then submits it to a TPG and it comes back F-15 or F-12.)

1) Has anyone else noticed this type of variance in grading these early Bust silver coins from raw to slabbed state?
2) Does the JRCS has their own independent style of grading like the EAC?
If so, should there be note of this in Auctions? If not, how do JRCS type numismatists feel about adding this like that of EAC?



There are a couple things that will vary among JRCS type coins and from various denominations. Strike to me definitely plays the largest role in grading these coins. Different strikes (often residing with different varieties or die-states) will, and should grade independently from other coins of different varieties (for example: O-101 may vary greatly in strike from an O-103). I'm sure the TPG's grade on a standard for each coin type, and they don't grade specifically for each variety, with the exception that TPG's may grade stronger for weaker strikes than counting this as absolute wear. This unfortunately may skew the understanding of my arguement a little bit, but hopefully won't confuse those reading this.

Also, there is a definite distinction between how one top TPG grades JRCS style coins versus the other. I feel that NGC grades Early Silver coins one or two grades higher than PCGS. Does this then mean that NGC grades closer to the "JRCS" style than PCGS, I would say the answer is generally no. I'm just noting this so that there is less bias from one TPG to another.

dorkkarl

your premise is not valid. the sheldon scale did NOT become the "mainstream grading scale". the point system & terms might of gotten stolen from sheldon, but the market grading is alot differnt from technical grading

K S

dorkkarl

oops, forgot to say that jrcs grade BY VARIETY, which tpg's do'nt have the ability to do because it's too difficult for them. ie a coin that is always weakly struck technically might grade higher (tech. grade) then the commercial grade

K S

STONE

Ok, so it was "stolen", and then adopted as THE method to grade coins, as opposed to terms like "Fine" or "Extra Fine" (used at the time o Sheldon), when in fact these terms vary greatly as far as what their grade # would be while using the Sheldon number grading scale.

I understand that JRCS members grade by variety and thus are independent from the TPG's in that regard, but generally most of the Capped Bust Coins are seen similarly struck, with some exceptions that are much weaker strikes and some that have exceptional strikes. The Draped and FH coins are more problematic due to their great variance in strike issues.

I would present examples of photos from dealer's websites and post that dealers' opinion of grade, but I don't feel this is fair. I may end up ridiculing or adding unfair promotion to one dealer over others with their grade opinion. What I would then do is present one or several examples of a coin that is of the same variety housed in a TPG with that same grade assigned as that of the raw coin by the dealer. Then, post the two coins side-by-side and let you all, the audience, determine the variance I am trying to unravel with the grades......Thus trying to prove my point, if possible without images.

dorkkarl

well, you gotta remember that if you grade by commercial grades, you have to use a commercial price guide, ie. greysheet, trends, whatever. if you grade by eac standards, you MUST use a eac pricing guide NOT A COMMERCIAL GUIDE! ie. "copper quotes"

same is true for jrcs grades, but of course there's no "silver quotes" price guide, which is why we jrcs members value auction results so highly

bottom line: the grading standards for technical vs. market grading are very differnt, as is reflected by very different price guides.

K S

joecopper

TPG's do not know how to grade copper and most use EAC type standards to grade any series when they buy and TPG (market) when they sell.