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$8,000 by 2012
renman95
Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭✭✭
That tagline would certainly get my attention. This is not from any headline that is credible. It's from me. And I will explain how I got here.
In the 1970's as a YN I saw gold per ounce go from the $30's to low hundreds and then to a paradigm-type shift to $850.
That number back then was not fathomable. This is a mental exercise. VW's were advertised at $2,995 in the early 70's.
My parents bought a house for $19,000 in SoCal and my dad made $14,000 per year. That same house would be $400,000 even in todays market...if there was a buyer.
A safe minivan cannot be had for $19,000 today.
So, I think now we've reached a point in economic history where there needs to be another paradigm shift in valuing gold in light of todays credit-Hiroshima and energy-Hiroshima and other Hiroshimas.
So, I pick an outrageous number like $8,000. Well, not so crazy actually. We were nearly at $1,050 this summer. Our credit crisis over this year and the next 5 years could easily devalue our dollar 3 or 4 fold.
Ten, 15 or 20 cents on the current devalued dollar.
I think most here can agree that this current credit issue being solved by our elected "giants" isn't the last issue. There are more "issues" coming that are more interconnected to main street than Wall Street. If there is a visible run of the banks on CNN et al., the beginning of the end is at hand. The influence of these elected giants may actually harm any recovery and prolong our misery like FDR did in the thirties.
There are many more "derivative" issues to come.
So, what would be your speculative price of gold per ounce when the American economy absolutely fails due to lax regulation, poor bills, partisanship, untrustworthy borrows and lenders, the handling by "giants" and their buddies, the bankers, trying to protect their interests over the interests of we the people? Dire as it seems, it almost seems to be required to get rid of these "issues" and start over.
I'm just sad that my children will not see the America that I grew in that can help me, a first-gen-immigrant, propel to heights I never dreamed were possible.
We are living in a time where our children may not have the same standard of living as their parents.
Ren
In the 1970's as a YN I saw gold per ounce go from the $30's to low hundreds and then to a paradigm-type shift to $850.
That number back then was not fathomable. This is a mental exercise. VW's were advertised at $2,995 in the early 70's.
My parents bought a house for $19,000 in SoCal and my dad made $14,000 per year. That same house would be $400,000 even in todays market...if there was a buyer.
A safe minivan cannot be had for $19,000 today.
So, I think now we've reached a point in economic history where there needs to be another paradigm shift in valuing gold in light of todays credit-Hiroshima and energy-Hiroshima and other Hiroshimas.
So, I pick an outrageous number like $8,000. Well, not so crazy actually. We were nearly at $1,050 this summer. Our credit crisis over this year and the next 5 years could easily devalue our dollar 3 or 4 fold.
Ten, 15 or 20 cents on the current devalued dollar.
I think most here can agree that this current credit issue being solved by our elected "giants" isn't the last issue. There are more "issues" coming that are more interconnected to main street than Wall Street. If there is a visible run of the banks on CNN et al., the beginning of the end is at hand. The influence of these elected giants may actually harm any recovery and prolong our misery like FDR did in the thirties.
There are many more "derivative" issues to come.
So, what would be your speculative price of gold per ounce when the American economy absolutely fails due to lax regulation, poor bills, partisanship, untrustworthy borrows and lenders, the handling by "giants" and their buddies, the bankers, trying to protect their interests over the interests of we the people? Dire as it seems, it almost seems to be required to get rid of these "issues" and start over.
I'm just sad that my children will not see the America that I grew in that can help me, a first-gen-immigrant, propel to heights I never dreamed were possible.
We are living in a time where our children may not have the same standard of living as their parents.
Ren
0
Comments
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
my only response is that gold should be over $2000 today if you are comparing past performance of other assets, and we're not even half there, now so there are other forces of socio-economic and political nature to factor in this carzy mess.
is the evolution and/or corruption of a fiat based world economy to blame?
if you are right the St Gaudens HR offering from the mint next year will be a bargain and a beauty! (just to keep on topic)
I've mentioned it before, but the signal that the height has been reached is when the Dow equals the price of gold. It's happened many times before and will happen again. In fact, I'm thinking now, the price of gold may overshoot the Dow, since in this 'cycle' we've had such an artificial, propped up stock market boom, that the reverse, when it happens, will be just as strong.
Gold $8000, Dow 8000.......Gold $4000 Dow 4000....who knows? ..but I certainly wouldn't doubt it happening.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
My childhood
- had chores. Cut grass, shovel snow, clean house, etc
- no color tv and video games. 1 20 year old black and white tv. I was the channel changer; "Get up and put on chanel 5 !!"
- got one small present at Christmas time
- family had 1 crappy car
- my house was a 1200sqft hovel but I didn't know it. Had 1 bathroom for 6 people and 3 bed rooms were 10x10. No central air.
- we add spaghetti 3 times a week cause it was cheap
- if we went out for dinner once a month it was alot and it was to McDonalds
- walked 1 mile to school in all weather. Schools were old and not air conditioned. 1 room, maybe 2 teachers, 3 sports teams
- wore hand me down clothes and bought our "new" clothes at the Salvation Army
- vacation was a weekend trip to our 'rich" uncle's house in the "country"
My kids childhoods
- chores? yeah, right dad
- color tv's in every room. Xbox, Wii while Gamecube sits in closet
- dozens of presents at Christmas and birthdays
- 2 cars, 1 new, 1 used. I'm the chaufer
- 2500 sqft house, finished basement, rooms 15 x 12, 2.5 baths for 4 people, central air, heated in ground pool
- if we have spaghetti once week its too much
- we eat out 2 or 3 times a week
- walk to school? Are you kidding? Walk anywhere? Are you kidding? Schools have pool, Wifi, new science labs, music rooms, orchestra pit, auditorium, specialized teachers for every subject, dozens of sports and clubs, counselors.
- new clothes every year and we give away our "used" clothes to the Salvation Army, some still with tags on them.
- 1 week to the shore every year and 1 week to some nice spot every year. I was never on a plane until I was in my 20's. My kids have been to Hawaii, Colorado, California, Florida, Seattle and NW territories, Canada.
- IPods, cell phones now "mandatory"
I could go on.
Yeah, our kids lives 'suck'. If you value education, you can still make it. Problem is, no one wants to work at school any more.
PS - my kids "jobs" are to get A's in school and they do. I think they can still have a nice life but it won't come as easy.
My children are 19 and 17 (children no more!)
And I do firmly believe that their children will not have as high a standard of living as myself and my children.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
roadrunner
When things are at their worst, we are at our best. Things need to decline a little for it to spur us on and make things better for future generations. All things go in cycles. The financial debt cycle appears at its end. A new cycle will emerge.
You read far too much into threads. But for what it's worth, I have little confidence in our politicans or bankers to do the right things. I've felt that way since the mid-1990's. If that's "disdain for humanity in general," mea culpa.
For what it's worth, the financial debt cycle is in the 2nd inning. At best we've waded through 5-20% of the unseen debt out there. That means another 5 to 20 $700 BILLION bail outs if things go well. I tend to think it will be on the higher side of that - $15+ TRILL.
We'd better be at our very best for another few years because there are hundreds of TRILLIONs of toxic securities to account for. The mortgage crisis is just the warning shot. $700B will only cover the ante at the poker game that just started. But we'll need a lot more money to maintain a stake in this game. From a total dollar standpoint there is little you or I can do to help salvage this mess other than to write our elected officials. Less than 600 people will be calling the shots on where our financial future lies. Ironically, these very same 600 people got us to this precipice.
roadrunner
<< <i>dbcoin, the fact that we benefited to a great extreme off foreign nations for the last 30 years has nothing to do with anyone's "disdain for humanity." It certainly doesn't even say that as a country we planned on that result or meant to take advantage of anyone. The USA had the world's reserve currency, most of the gold, and the soundest economy on earth. The fact is that it happened, and the current outcome is explainable as well (higher inflation being exported back to us). These are economic facts, "not disdain for humanity in general." Reserve currency or not, no nation cannot live beyond its means and debt forever without severe consequences. The fact they we went as long is a tribute to our financial "ingenuity."
You read far too much into threads. But for what it's worth, I have little confidence in our politicans or bankers to do the right things. I've felt that way since the mid-1990's. If that's "disdain for humanity in general," mea culpa.
For what it's worth, the financial debt cycle is in the 2nd inning. At best we've waded through 5-20% of the unseen debt out there. That means another 5 to 20 $700 BILLION bail outs if things go well. I tend to think it will be on the higher side of that - $15+ TRILL.
We'd better be at our very best for another few years because there are hundreds of TRILLIONs of toxic securities to account for. The mortgage crisis is just the warning shot. $700B will only cover the ante at the poker game that just started. But we'll need a lot more money to maintain a stake in this game. From a total dollar standpoint there is little you or I can do to help salvage this mess other than to write our elected officials. Less than 600 people will be calling the shots on where our financial future lies. Ironically, these very same 600 people got us to this precipice.
roadrunner >>
Very well said roadrunner. I agree 100%
The only thing that can keep things running (and I won't use the word 'smoothly') is if foreign nations are willing to keep financing the US debt.
Eventually, once they decide not to, they will realize a global market without the US economy is a better scenario than holding trillions of worthless US dollars.
THEN the sh*t will truly hit the fan!!
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
The lives of your kids, dbcoin, are your responsibility as they grow and if you think they have it too easy, are pampered or do not appreciate what they have then you know, too, who is at fault.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
They need Metal this bad!
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
My kids are straight A honor students. Top 10 in their classes of over 600. I have trust funds for them and they espire to go to Princeton and Harvard. Are they pampered? Yeah, and I'm happy fo them. Your kids are too young to give you any crap except in their diapers. Talk to me in 10 or 12 years. Then you'll understand.
I'm an MS in the Sciences myself. I don't think, I do.
<< <i>- chores? yeah, right dad
- color tv's in every room. Xbox, Wii while Gamecube sits in closet
- dozens of presents at Christmas and birthdays
- 2 cars, 1 new, 1 used. I'm the chaufer
- 2500 sqft house, finished basement, rooms 15 x 12, 2.5 baths for 4 people, central air, heated in ground pool
- if we have spaghetti once week its too much
- we eat out 2 or 3 times a week
- walk to school? Are you kidding? Walk anywhere? Are you kidding? Schools have pool, Wifi, new science labs, music rooms, orchestra pit, auditorium, specialized teachers for every subject, dozens of sports and clubs, counselors.
- new clothes every year and we give away our "used" clothes to the Salvation Army, some still with tags on them.
- 1 week to the shore every year and 1 week to some nice spot every year. I was never on a plane until I was in my 20's. My kids have been to Hawaii, Colorado, California, Florida, Seattle and NW territories, Canada.
- IPods, cell phones now "mandatory" >>
They pick up their toys, pick out their clothes and put their dirty clothes away. We own one TV and it is rarely on. We do not own a Wii, an Xbox, a Gamecube or any similar device. They get a few presents, which I expect will increase as they get older, but not dozens of toys. All their toys are bought secondhand. All their clothes are bought secondhand. Heck, I still wear clothes I bought in the 1980s. My wife and I each have a car and mine is pushing 300,000 miles at the moment. It will be driven until it is in the ground just like my previous car failed with similar mileage. We don't have a finished basement or an inground or above ground pool. We eat pasta four or five nights each week and if my children do not like dinner then they do not eat. We go to Applebee's or the local pizza place once each week, that's it. We do not take vacations where we are required to travel. Our time off is spent locally and our kids go to local museums, fairs, festivals, aquariums and zoos. Neither my wife nor I own an Ipod and we do not use cell phones. Indeed, our single phone in the house is used only one day each week and that is so our kids can talk to their grandparents.
I assume you control the purse strings for your children. That, in combination with the values you instill in them, should go a long way toward describing their lifestyle and outlook. I would like to help my children if they decide to go to college, but I will not pick institutions for them and will require that they shoulder the majority of the financial responsibility of such an endeavor just like my wife did with her earned scholarships and fellowships and how I did by working 30+ hours each week during college before earning my own fellowships. We value education and we value earning what we have.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I hope they turn out to be great kids but I have seen many good 2 years old turn onto heroin addicted 16 year olds. Comparing a 2 year year old to a teenager is hard to do. Your kids view as as God right now. That will change.
As far as your life style, to each their own. I had that life style growing up and I am glad I have better now. Heck, even poor people I know have better life styles now than I had growing up.
dude, you need to spend some money. Sell some of those shiny metal objects and buy your kids some toys. Go on vacation. sheesh.
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Far be it from me to tell you what to do, but I believe Tom is right on.
To each, his own happiness.
Yes, things change when your kids reach 14! My oldest daughter is 14, and she is more stubborn than I am. She is doing well in school, but from this point on she will make most of her own decisions.
It starts getting competitive in Kindergarten. If your kids haven't become familar with a computer before age 5 with all kinds of interactive games, they get put in the pod with the slower kids. No kidding. It's that competive.
To each his own. I don't know where the guy who eats spaghetti 5 times a week and denies his family what I would consider to be modern needs lives, but it isn't near me. And I wouldn't want my wife and kids in a car with 300 thousand miles in it. Probably doesn't have ABS, or air bags. Might not even have seat belts. I don't know what state he lives in, but in NJ it wouldn't pass the emissions restrictions either.
<< <i> And I wouldn't want my wife and kids in a car with 300 thousand miles in it. Probably doesn't have ABS, or air bags. Might not even have seat belts. I don't know what state he lives in, but in NJ it wouldn't pass the emissions restrictions either. >>
When I sold my Honda, it had 320,000 miles on it. No, it didn't have ABS or airbags, but it had seatbelts and passed every emission test it ever had. In southern California.
"Lots of Miles" doesn't necessarily equal "Piece of Junk."
<< <i> To each his own. I don't know where the guy who eats spaghetti 5 times a week and denies his family what I would consider to be modern needs lives, but it isn't near me. And I wouldn't want my wife and kids in a car with 300 thousand miles in it. Probably doesn't have ABS, or air bags. Might not even have seat belts. I don't know what state he lives in, but in NJ it wouldn't pass the emissions restrictions either. >>
There's nothing wrong with being frugal. It sure beats the alternative that a lot of Americans are living, of an Escalade and BMW in the drive way, maxed out credit cards, no savings, interest only mortgage, etc. etc. etc. The material things you give kids aren't as important as spending time with them, reading to them, etc. The material possessions won't make them any smarter or better in school, but reading to them and taking them to museums, aquarium, cultural events probably will.
gone. get off my lawn. in my day we walked uphill to school both
ways with no shoes.
every darn time.. no matter the generation the old timers were wrong.
you would think they would notice this trend of being wrong every
time... but no. it is a natural reaction of old people to bash the youth
and their strange ways. i at 33 am catching myself for doing it when
i walk through the mall and chuckle at how i have changed with age.
i was those youths 18 years ago...
sigh.
----
as for gold being 8000... it is possible but i would not take the
bet in my lifetime. tis a fool's bet.
how long did the hyper inflation last in germany? a decade of people's
money being lost.. a huge war they lost in a spectacular way.
gee. you think the country would just plain suck right? after all that
misery.
nope! not even a full generation later they are back to a very nice
country with a high standard of living.
american soldiers related to the germans the most in WWII. i wonder
why?
anyway.
That's right!
<< <i>how long did the hyper inflation last in germany? a decade of people's
money being lost.. a huge war they lost in a spectacular way.
gee. you think the country would just plain suck right? after all that
misery.
nope! not even a full generation later they are back to a very nice
country with a high standard of living. >>
The ones who made it through the war alive, anyway. I guess it sucked for the millions who didn't make that list, though.
how long did the hyper inflation last in germany? a decade of people's money being lost.. a huge war they lost in a spectacular way. gee. you think the country would just plain suck right? after all that misery. nope! not even a full generation later they are back to a very nice country with a high standard of living.
One year of hyperinflation is more than enough to destroy an economy. Weimer inflation lasted several years as I recall. I wouldn't want to wish the hyper-inflation of Zimbabwe on any country - not even a month of it. At 1,000,000% inflation in May, things drop pretty quick there. They are homing on 50,000,000% today. Forget the month of hyperinflation, most of us would be broke in one day unless you held hard assets. Once a hyperinflation gets going, and it could start overnight following any single catostrophic event, it rolls very fast. To those that toiled during the Weimar years, I bet it did suck, for quite some time. It was one of the primary reasons that helped to bring Hitler to power. Now that really sucked.
roadrunner
<< <i>
<< <i>how long did the hyper inflation last in germany? a decade of people's
money being lost.. a huge war they lost in a spectacular way.
gee. you think the country would just plain suck right? after all that
misery.
nope! not even a full generation later they are back to a very nice
country with a high standard of living. >>
The ones who made it through the war alive, anyway. I guess it sucked for the millions who didn't make that list, though. >>
Oh, boy. Where do I start. So many interesting tangents have glommed onto this thread. I like it!
First: I would say that most everyone posting here understands the value of a dollar and is hard working and enjoys the freedoms bestowed by our Constitution et al. So, if you have children of any age, these attributes to some degree have shined upon them. Some more than others. Our (posters') kids are not the norm.
I am in the camp between being frugal and having Escalades and BMW's in the garage. By the shear nature of my profession travel is education. I have never regretted a single quid spent on travel. I, and my family, have traveled well at times and have traveled in the nitty-gritty. An isolated education of a campus is not a full education. It's not until you explore something like +-90 degrees in longitude and/or +-45 degrees in latitude do you fully appreciate your education and heritage.
My 4 children are in private school but work at home doing chores. We have some land that they are learning to appreciate. None of my 4 have a TV in their room. After school it's rest, homework, chores, dinner, and reading during school nights but not necessarily in that order. Education, history primarily, is most important for my kids. A hard work ethic, bestowed upon me by my father is right there with education. And, lastly, having a safe-place at home where no one is judged...because it's a cruel world out there.
Second: my parents "escaped" the iron curtain and emigrated to the Americas. My father's life was still tough throughout his years. He lost his culture, a war, and his country and that was difficult for him. But, as a child, I knew that he had more than he ever would have had, had he stayed in Germany. I also knew the stuff didn't compensate for his loss.
Third: the hyperinflation lasted from mid-1922 through November 1923. Wholesale Price Index rose from 2.6% in Jan 1919 to 726,000,000,000% in November of 1923! Why? Well, there never is one answer. It's a multiple of faults. One was reparations after WWI which depreciated the mark against other currencies. New socialist leaders promised the people all types of bounties. Inflation stabilized in 1920 but the government kept issuing new money. The currency in circulation increased by 50%. By May 1921 inflation started up again and by July 1922 prices had risen 700% due to new currency. July 1922 the phase of hyperinflation started. No confidence in the money. Price indices rose quicker than the printing press. By 1923, 300 paper mills were working top speed and 150 printing companies had 2000 presses going day and night turning out currency. Labor and its unions were destroyed. Shops were empty. Workers who worked were paid three times a day because of the change in currency. Food riots broke out. The middle class sold everything. By the miracle of the Rentenmark, the depreciation was halted, business revived and the inflation spree halted...probably....everything was exhausted to what it was worth.
What caused the inflation?
Inflation caused by the government issuing a flood of new money, causing prices to rise. As I've researched this for the above paragragh I came upon an interesting quote..."it would be wrong to think that eveyone was opposed to inflation. Many big business leaders accepted it cheerfully. It wiped out their debts."
Finally, by October 1923, 1% of government income came from taxes and 99% from the creation of new money.
Bingo.....$8,000 per ounce of gold in the USA!
We have three wars to pay for... Social programs. Printing press running a mock. Big business and Bernake that think and have studied that inflation is better than deflation. And poor leadership.
Ren
1) My kids have it better than I did, but are certainly less spoiled than their peers (a fact they like to remind me of frequently)
2) The first time I heard "You will be the first generation of Americans to have a lower standard of living than your parents" was when I was around 10 years old. My teacher was wrong then, and I believe that opinion is still wrong.
3) Balance - yes there's nothing wrong with being frugal, and more people should live within their means. I drive older high-mileage cars too, but Dude, take a vacation!
4) Those 2- and 4-year old angels will indeed be 14 and 16 some day. Trust me, they *will* change.
5) I have no clue what the price of gold will be in 2012, but I would bet money that it will be higher than now, as will the stock market and the price of my favorite beer.
<< <i> As I've researched this for the above paragragh I came upon an interesting quote..."it would be wrong to think that eveyone was opposed to inflation. Many big business leaders accepted it cheerfully. It wiped out their debts."
We have three wars to pay for... Social programs. Printing press running a mock. Big business and Bernake that think and have studied that inflation is better than deflation. And poor leadership. >>
That's exactly what makes me nervous. When inflation appears to be the path of least resistance to getting out of our overwhelming, unmanageable debts, the political and business classes will see to it that we have inflation. And lots of it. Once inflation seems like a way out of our problems, it will be the way things happens. It won't be epic Germany-in-the-1920s inflation, but it will still be real, tangible inflation that erodes savings and the currency (as well as debts).
lets get real. Maybe they will have to suck it up and not have an I phone and a PSP and a new computer every year. TIme to suck it up and get a job, a real job. and put down the credit card and save some money.
<< <i>lets get real. Maybe they will have to suck it up and not have an I phone and a PSP and a new computer every year. >>
A perspective I want to introduce the very interesting discussion taking place in this thread, speaks to the nature of technology as it relates to comparative standards of living:
Recently, I bought an antique scale that now resides atop my desk. It was probably made between 1865 & 1900 by the Henry Troemner company of Philadelphia, (who made scale for the U.S. Mint during this period.) This scale is beautiful - it is made of Cherry wood, and incorporates 9 panes of beveled glass into its design - as a machine, it serves one purpose, and that is to measure the weight of things, a task it still performs as flawlessly today as it did when it was made over 100 years ago - between its beauty and its functionality, I have little doubt that this scale will survive for all time, barring any kind of fire or accident that might claim it otherwise. In contrast this lap top I am typing on which also resides upon my desk is only two years old - already it is an antique by many standards - though it performs infinitely more tasks than my old scale, five years from now I would be surprised if it existed at all except as recycled into some other form.
My point is that when comparing standards of living across generations, it is important to look past oversimplified comparisons and to take into account that the very nature of living continues to change as well.
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In the end, it all still comes down to decisions and issues that are well beyond your control. Ironic, ain't it.
I have my own ideas on child rearing, which I won't go into here as it is a bit OT...
I do belive that in general my children, which I don't have yet, will live in a different US than I grew up in. Over the last several years I have seen the US detoriate in quality and integrity. The people who are running our country are no longer the die-hard idealistic patriots that this country was founded with. Almost all governement leaders cannot see past their term time limits and the "good of the nation" seems to no longer be on their agenda.
This, combined with out of control spending and lack of controls, has brought us to this situation we are in now. And I see no way that the US will come out of this on top without a major shift of attitudes of the nation as a whole and our ruling leaders. There is also no way that the US can calm these financial woes without incuring additional exenses and debts, with their lack of options inflation seems the best for them now.
But the current financial crisis is only a tiny piece of rock in the avalanche coming down the hill. You've still got, in order of magnitude, dependence on foreign oil, the rising of China & India as world powers, Medicare & Social Security, healthcare, clean water & infastructure, education standards, and several others.
The US has several problems that do not even seem to be on the radar of our politicians.
Bottom line is that I don't think seeing $8,000 gold is a strech especially in this world of high inflation and tight competion for natural resources, will it happen by 2012, who knows. But if the rest of the world un-pegs the US dollar for trade (especially oil), I think we will be about the same as Germany in the 1920s.
I also belive that the majority of the US has too much of an entitlement mentatility and has lost it's work ethic. What happens when you can't go to the market and buy food because the $ is devauled too much or other countries will pay more than we can? Can you see Americans working their home gardens?
Dow down 700+ points just a half hour ago. "Recovered" to just down 445!
Ren
I so happy that I've been out of this. I still would not venture back for a long time.
This is a paradigm shift.
Not a pair of dimes...that's just change.
Ren
Ren
Brothers, I've got four grandkids. Sometimes I just want to hug them and apologize to them for the socialist lifestyle that they are going to be condemned to live. They didn't do anything to deserve this.
take it from someone who sent a child into college recently with very similar academic achievements,
your last name, your economic standing, your "at home" family status IS more important these days than anything else.....
it sucks, but it's reality, we dug this ditch and now we are at the bottom of it
get ready to pay full tuition and fees without any assistance, why?, because if you cant meet any of the above "desired" qualities, you dont get any help
R
Thanks
<< <i>If Gold goes that high, where might silver be priced??
Thanks >>
$100-$125 would be my guess.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Miles
Box of 20
every darn time.. no matter the generation the old timers were wrong. you would think they would notice this trend of being wrong every time... but no. it is a natural reaction of old people to bash the youth and their strange ways. i at 33 am catching myself for doing it when i walk through the mall and chuckle at how i have changed with age.
This Sept 2008 quote from fc is quite telling today in that the "older generation," in particular the ones that grew up in the 1920's to 1940's had it right. Yet we put them out to pasture in the 1980's and 1990's with new fangled finance and new paradigms. It's clear today they were right, and we were dead wrong. Chalk one up to the oldsters who were dead right when it counted, but none of us would listen.
roadrunner
industry ,with retirement and health benefits to a job that
paid less then half ,with no benefits whatsoever. What ever
he will have in his old age may be , what he inherits from me.
that is, if there is anything left at all.Kind of a sad state of
of the Nation.
Camelot
<< <i>
<< <i> To each his own. I don't know where the guy who eats spaghetti 5 times a week and denies his family what I would consider to be modern needs lives, but it isn't near me. And I wouldn't want my wife and kids in a car with 300 thousand miles in it. Probably doesn't have ABS, or air bags. Might not even have seat belts. I don't know what state he lives in, but in NJ it wouldn't pass the emissions restrictions either. >>
There's nothing wrong with being frugal. It sure beats the alternative that a lot of Americans are living, of an Escalade and BMW in the drive way, maxed out credit cards, no savings, interest only mortgage, etc. etc. etc. The material things you give kids aren't as important as spending time with them, reading to them, etc. The material possessions won't make them any smarter or better in school, but reading to them and taking them to museums, aquarium, cultural events probably will. >>
It's a relief to see a healthy approach to material things, and I applaud those who don't waste their precious time and resources on things that don't matter in the long run. This is particularly true if these material gadgets have been purchased on credit.
On another note, as per the OP's comment on a much higher price of gold: what difference does it make if it takes multiple times more greenbacks to buy a particular amount of the yellow metal in the future? Does that mean holders of gold have won the lottery or something? I think not; it merely means they have averted financial disaster and have been able to maintain their purchasing power as the currencies fail. It's difficult to quantify at what point someone has made a "profit" on long-held precious metals, correct? I'd love to say, yes, I've made an 800% profit on my gold (bought at today's prices and sold when gold reaches $8000), but is it really a profit? It seems to me that in this case, the dollar has lost value, and not gold gaining in value.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22