Mariners players hate Ichiro?

MantleMarisFordBerra

Saw this on SI today - wonder what the beef is?


Another loss Thursday night for the Mariners at Safeco Field began the way so many other contests have this season. Ichiro reached base on his 176th single of the season and the 1,800th hit of his career. The significance was hard to miss, given how it came the same day The Seattle Times quoted a Mariners clubhouse insider saying animosity from some teammates was so great he feared Ichiro would be attacked. Both manager Jim Riggleman and closer J.J. Putz said before the team's 6-4 loss to the Los Angeles Angels that they could not recall any specific incidents of threats against Ichiro or team meetings because of it. The clubhouse insider had indicated that a meeting was held to discuss grumbling about Ichiro earlier this season, as well as in May 2007. The source did not indicate whether Ichiro's name was specifically brought up in front of the team, or whether the issue of internal bickering was dealt with in more general terms. He did say that former manager John McLaren and his staff were forced to act this season after a player was overheard talking about Ichiro and wanting to "knock him out."

TheVon

Wow. Interesting. This is just a guess, but if I were one of his teammates I'd want to knock him out too just because all he seems to care about is hitting singles. How about trying to leg out a double once in a while and get into scoring position? Who cares if you have 176 singles, the team is dead last in wins IN ALL OF BASEBALL. I mean, seriously! Even the Nationals have more wins than the Mariners this year.

Treetop

I've said all along that Ichiro was a cancer in the clubhouse and the team would never turn it around until he was gone. 40 games out, 100 Plus losses, I think its time to cut ties with Ichiro.

TheVon

I agree. Unfortunately for the Mariners, he's the face of the franchise and there would be a legion of fans that would revolt if he left. All the same, it might be the best thing for the club long term if he is, in fact, a cancer. It reminds me a little bit of when the Red Sox cut ties with Nomar. He was a fan favorite, still putting up okay numbers, but he had become a distraction and a detraction from team unity.

Ichiro would fit in a lot better on a team like the Angels where he could hit singles all day and the team would be able to move him around the bases. The Mariners don't need a guy to get stranded on first base every inning.

brianwintersfan

<< <i>I've said all along that Ichiro was a cancer in the clubhouse and the team would never turn it around until he was gone. 40 games out, 100 Plus losses, I think its time to cut ties with Ichiro. >>



And why is he viewed that way??

edmundfitzgerald

<< <i>

And why is he viewed that way?? >>



Regardless of who is to blame, Mariners manager Mike Hargrove is in the middle of a fight he can't win. Either Hargrove repairs his relationship with Ichiro Suzuki or Hargrove soon will be looking for another job.

Hargrove and Mariners general manager Bill Bavasi deny a rift exists between the manager and the right fielder, but Ichiro's complaints to Japanese media about the atmosphere around the team reflect his frustration with Hargrove's leadership.

Several people with knowledge of the situation say there are philosophical differences between Ichiro and Hargrove and that Ichiro perceives Hargrove to be too laid-back, which creates an undisciplined environment. Those people say the relationship, from Ichiro's perspective, is "untenable" and "potentially irreconcilable."

Treetop

<< <i>

<< <i>I've said all along that Ichiro was a cancer in the clubhouse and the team would never turn it around until he was gone. 40 games out, 100 Plus losses, I think its time to cut ties with Ichiro. >>



And why is he viewed that way?? >>



Just watch a few games and you'll see. A great player, but not a team player by any means

StopYurWhining

an overrated singles hitter.

lawnmowerman

I heard on the radio this morning that he is a very selfish player.

grote15

Last week some here were comparing him favorably to Tim Raines. This thread seems more on target.

megatron

<< <i>

<< <i>

And why is he viewed that way?? >>



Regardless of who is to blame, Mariners manager Mike Hargrove is in the middle of a fight he can't win. Either Hargrove repairs his relationship with Ichiro Suzuki or Hargrove soon will be looking for another job.

Hargrove and Mariners general manager Bill Bavasi deny a rift exists between the manager and the right fielder, but Ichiro's complaints to Japanese media about the atmosphere around the team reflect his frustration with Hargrove's leadership.

Several people with knowledge of the situation say there are philosophical differences between Ichiro and Hargrove and that Ichiro perceives Hargrove to be too laid-back, which creates an undisciplined environment. Those people say the relationship, from Ichiro's perspective, is "untenable" and "potentially irreconcilable." >>



Whoa, I'm confused and feel like I'm stuck in a time machine. I don't care about the Mariners and don't really keep up with the news of the club unless it relates to MLB, but I thought an ex-Cub manager took over - Jim Riggleman. Has that changed? Didn't Hargrove leave last year or the year before? In the middle of a good run, nonetheless?

WeekendHacker

Hargrove quit on the team last year and bavasi was kicked to the curb earlier this summer. Not sure where or how hargrove & bavasi still fit into the mess in Seattle. I must also add, I'm not surprised that the mariners players want to kick ichiro's a$$. He's always been more concerned with his individual stats than playing to win. I won't go as far as to say that he is a cancer in the clubhouse, but he certainly isn't bringing any camaraderie to the team. Selfish players always have been and always will be singled out by their teammates.

joestalin

please, Ichiro knows about as much English as Pedro does...how can the dude the getting in trouble when he can't even speak the
language. Maybe his teamates are just sick of looking at that poor excuse for a beard or maybe just sick of that stupid way he hits
the ball, or that all he has to do is show up and he gets to the All Star game.

Of course look what the Mariners did with Grif, Arod and Randy Johnson!

JS

Dave99B

If this is true, my guess is some of these 'players' (I use the term loosely) are simply jealous of all the records he’s setting.

At 17 million/year, Ichiro is a steal. Purest hitter in baseball.

Dave

cwazzy

I guess I don't see why Ichiro is viewed so negatively. The guy gets on base. Isn't that what a leadoff hitter is supposed to do? And it's not like he's out there dogging it in the field (see: Manny Ramirez). So he doesn't hit a lot of doubles but he does steal around 40 bases a year, so he's getting into scoring position. And what does "the stupid way he hits the ball" have to do with anything?

Chris

Blackborder

They nicknamed him Itchy.

Dave99B

And what does "the stupid way he hits the ball" have to do with anything?

A classic case of 'consider the source' !

Dave

ernie11

<< <i>I guess I don't see why Ichiro is viewed so negatively. The guy gets on base. Isn't that what a leadoff hitter is supposed to do? And it's not like he's out there dogging it in the field (see: Manny Ramirez). So he doesn't hit a lot of doubles but he does steal around 40 bases a year, so he's getting into scoring position. And what does "the stupid way he hits the ball" have to do with anything?

Chris >>



I agree. I think the other players on that club should be caring about their own stats, because they're not much to look at.

Jersey

Ichiro doesn't only get over 200 hits every year, he has scored over 100 runs every year. That's an important statistic. If anyone does beat on Ichiro, they better get punished big time.

Dave99B

See below for the list of better fielding right fielders:

TheVon

<< <i>I guess I don't see why Ichiro is viewed so negatively. The guy gets on base. Isn't that what a leadoff hitter is supposed to do? And it's not like he's out there dogging it in the field (see: Manny Ramirez). So he doesn't hit a lot of doubles but he does steal around 40 bases a year, so he's getting into scoring position. And what does "the stupid way he hits the ball" have to do with anything?

Chris >>



He actually doesn't get on base that much compared to a lot of leadoff hitters. I looked it up last week for another thread. He was 55th in the league in on base percentage.

Hoopster

Ichiro is severly overrated, there is no question.

I don't know what "pure hitter" means. Does it mean that he is a virgin? By tradtion, it is a guy who has a high BA, or doesn't strike out much. If that is what it means, then "Pure Hitter" isn't all that impressive. I would prefer to be viewed as a "Best Hitter," which Ichiro clearly is not.

WinPitcher

Pure hitter to me means Tony Gwynn.


or Wade Boggs.


Not Ichiro.


Ichiro to me is a slap hitting singles hitter.

Nothing wrong with that btw.


Steve

Dave99B

Still waiting for the list of better defensive RF-ers....

Dave

PS If I have to define 'pure hitter' for you, you likely would not understand anyway.

mosaic

The other players are peeved with Ichiro because he doesn't hang out with them or stretch with them. He keeps to himself and has his own solo warmup routine.

As for "not legging out doubles," Ichiro has 43 stolen bases this season. That's just as good, IMO, especially since it rattles the opposing pitcher. It's a batty argument anyway, because the rest of the team can't get on base for jack, and they're certainly not knocking him in.

Ichiro is a fast lead-off hitter (and superb outfielder). That's his job. He does his job well. If only the other eight in the lineup would do theirs (although Beltre wasn't bad this season, and Ibanez had a tear there).

I mean, c'mon, Rickey Henderson had Canseco and Big Mac in the lineup with him for a while!

Hoopster

Dave,

I would like you to define pure hitter, and hear some more nonsense.

So Tony Gwynn, BOggs, and Ichiro(for some) are pure hitters, but Dave Winfield, Eddie Murray, Mike Schmidt are not. So what?

Knowing exactly what people mean about 'pure hitter' (Dave, which I already know you moron), Mike Schmidt is the antithesis of a pure hitter, yet he is better than all the pure hitters from his time and on. Knowing that, why even assign the adjective, "pure hitter" to a player as if it vaults him into something that he is not?

All that matters for a hitter is the number of runs he is worth to a baseball team. And no, I am not talking abou total runs scored or RBI.



P.S. Dave, I have forgotten mroe about baseball than you will ever know pal.

Dave99B

Hoopster -

You are one ignorant dude. Schmidt was a power hitter.

Go buy a good book on baseball, read it, and then come back. At that point we can talk.

Dave

WinPitcher

o Tony Gwynn, BOggs, and Ichiro(for some) are pure hitters, but Dave Winfield, Eddie Murray, Mike Schmidt are not. So what?



Hoop in all fairness Dave did not say that Gwynn and Boggs were pure hitters I did, I also DID NOT say anything about Winfield, Schmidt and Murray.


Steve

StopYurWhining

forget about pure hitters, what about COMPLETE hitters. those that walk a lot, generate a lot of runs, along with serious pop. Thats folks like Frank Thomas, Pujols, Schmidt.

Hoopster

Dave,

Like I said, I have forgotten more about baseball than you will ever know.

Schmidt was a power hitter, and that makes him impure?

"Pure Hitter" is just a wasted categorization of a hitter, as it is used in terms that improperly conveys his value as a hitter.


Winpitcher, I added Schmidt etc... as those guys would be though of as impure, since they are not "pure". That is why "Pure Hitter" is nonsense.

TheVon

I guess "pure hitter" means a guy that purely hits singles and nothing else.

Hoopster

Von, that is typically what it means(good batting average). 'Doesn't strike out' is typically another attribute.

But people use "Pure Hitter" in terms to artificially inflate the players real value as a hitter, like it was used in this thread.

In Ichiro's case, his singles are not even as valuable as many other players singles. I will leave DaveB to chew on that one and say I am crazy or don't know what I am talking about.