Error or Trial Piece
onekram
Posts: 12
Coin Sent (vs) Coin Received
This past spring, I posted an Image of my coin 1873, on this forum.
The coin I sent to the coin dealer for a value & written description of the coin is not the same coin I received.
The coin dealer requested an image of the coin I sent him and the coin I received. His response to my e-mail was the image of my 1873 coin image of both sides of the coin. Whereas the coin I received he presented only one side of the coin, stating that the coin sent is the same coin using an arrow as display.
When posting the images on the forum I used his images of the coins he sent back to me by e-mail. This was my mistake.
The image of this coin was posted on the coin forum in May 2008. Title; Error-Trial Piece, Experimental coin with Designs abnormalities.
This is my error, by not posting both sides of coin received 1873 with new scans images from my computer of the coin received rather than using the e-mail image of one the coin dealer sent me being one side.
I spent the past months showing the e-mail image of the coin sent, compared to the coin received to coin collectors in my area. They are not qualified to write up the difference of the needed description of the 2 different coins. Encouraged by these coin collectors not to give up on the issue of receiving the wrong coin.
Humbly Requesting a written description of the coin sent (vs) Coin received too finally put this issue to rest. Unable to determine if coin sent is an experimental coin, error or trial piece based upon the characteristics of the coin it self.
Notice the image of the two dark coins in comparison to each other with the arrow pointing out the “markings” on the face of the coin this image was received by e-mail color & tone was added.
I printed large copy of the 2 coin image I received by e-mail. Local coin dealer compared it to each other, then compared the coin in my hand. He noticed the printed image was made to look like the original coin sent. Also pointed out that the color & tone of the coin in question is being passed off as if it is the same coin sent, which it is not the same coin. He finally compared the markings on BOTH SIDES of the coin that raised more questions.
From his response I scan the questioned coin again that I received from the coin dealer also had digital pictures made and compared them to each other for further comparison. The markings on the backside of coin are 100% different. Also the e-mail image of the two coin pointing out on the face of the coin with the arrow pointing to each marking on the coin reveals one coin with an oblique marking on the other coin has a vertical marking in the secondary field on the coin.
The neckline of the coins are different as well as the digits spacing, thickness of digit 1 do not match. The digits have different design characteristics also placement of the digits are not the same.
For example on the lighter coin digit 7 is larger than the digit 8. Digit 3 is much thicker than the digit 3 on the darker coin. Lighter coin digit 1 is thicker with no base line, compared to the darker coin the digit 1 is thinner with a base line bottom. Digit 7 on the lighter coin has a center crown with a more pronounce teardrop bottom. Finally notice the darker coin received is in better condition VF you can read the headband (Liberty) but on the lighter coin in F condition you are not able to read the head band.
I took these new scans of the “coin received” for the image to be posted on the coin forum so that the Image received by e-mail to be compared to the scan of the coin itself I have in hand. Notice the markings on the coin received are not the same coin.
The darker coin is the coin I received. The lighter coin is the coin sent.
Please look at “onekram 10 images” This is my scan of the original coin received.
Please do not confuse the image crop with “onekram Album of 20 images”. This is the E-mail image used that the coin dealer sent to me that I placed on coin forums. I crop the image to reflect the difference in the size of the digits / date.
If you have any questions! At your request will send you larger image of scan and or digital image of coin received by e-mail or US post for your comparison. What I received is different to the coin I sent. Please advise the “SIZE” of the Image of the coin to send by e-mail.
Please forward your findings to another2@prodigy.net
Thank you for your time.
onekram
http://photobucket.com/onekram
This past spring, I posted an Image of my coin 1873, on this forum.
The coin I sent to the coin dealer for a value & written description of the coin is not the same coin I received.
The coin dealer requested an image of the coin I sent him and the coin I received. His response to my e-mail was the image of my 1873 coin image of both sides of the coin. Whereas the coin I received he presented only one side of the coin, stating that the coin sent is the same coin using an arrow as display.
When posting the images on the forum I used his images of the coins he sent back to me by e-mail. This was my mistake.
The image of this coin was posted on the coin forum in May 2008. Title; Error-Trial Piece, Experimental coin with Designs abnormalities.
This is my error, by not posting both sides of coin received 1873 with new scans images from my computer of the coin received rather than using the e-mail image of one the coin dealer sent me being one side.
I spent the past months showing the e-mail image of the coin sent, compared to the coin received to coin collectors in my area. They are not qualified to write up the difference of the needed description of the 2 different coins. Encouraged by these coin collectors not to give up on the issue of receiving the wrong coin.
Humbly Requesting a written description of the coin sent (vs) Coin received too finally put this issue to rest. Unable to determine if coin sent is an experimental coin, error or trial piece based upon the characteristics of the coin it self.
Notice the image of the two dark coins in comparison to each other with the arrow pointing out the “markings” on the face of the coin this image was received by e-mail color & tone was added.
I printed large copy of the 2 coin image I received by e-mail. Local coin dealer compared it to each other, then compared the coin in my hand. He noticed the printed image was made to look like the original coin sent. Also pointed out that the color & tone of the coin in question is being passed off as if it is the same coin sent, which it is not the same coin. He finally compared the markings on BOTH SIDES of the coin that raised more questions.
From his response I scan the questioned coin again that I received from the coin dealer also had digital pictures made and compared them to each other for further comparison. The markings on the backside of coin are 100% different. Also the e-mail image of the two coin pointing out on the face of the coin with the arrow pointing to each marking on the coin reveals one coin with an oblique marking on the other coin has a vertical marking in the secondary field on the coin.
The neckline of the coins are different as well as the digits spacing, thickness of digit 1 do not match. The digits have different design characteristics also placement of the digits are not the same.
For example on the lighter coin digit 7 is larger than the digit 8. Digit 3 is much thicker than the digit 3 on the darker coin. Lighter coin digit 1 is thicker with no base line, compared to the darker coin the digit 1 is thinner with a base line bottom. Digit 7 on the lighter coin has a center crown with a more pronounce teardrop bottom. Finally notice the darker coin received is in better condition VF you can read the headband (Liberty) but on the lighter coin in F condition you are not able to read the head band.
I took these new scans of the “coin received” for the image to be posted on the coin forum so that the Image received by e-mail to be compared to the scan of the coin itself I have in hand. Notice the markings on the coin received are not the same coin.
The darker coin is the coin I received. The lighter coin is the coin sent.
Please look at “onekram 10 images” This is my scan of the original coin received.
Please do not confuse the image crop with “onekram Album of 20 images”. This is the E-mail image used that the coin dealer sent to me that I placed on coin forums. I crop the image to reflect the difference in the size of the digits / date.
If you have any questions! At your request will send you larger image of scan and or digital image of coin received by e-mail or US post for your comparison. What I received is different to the coin I sent. Please advise the “SIZE” of the Image of the coin to send by e-mail.
Please forward your findings to another2@prodigy.net
Thank you for your time.
onekram
http://photobucket.com/onekram
0
Comments
<< <i>Why do I feel like I am in the movie Ground Hog Day? >>
Okay, campers, rise and shine, and don't forget your booties 'cause it's cooooold outside...
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
You might be best to contact someone who specializes in IHC.
I can think of a few names... but dare not mention as getting tarred and feathered doesn't seem like much fun.
<< <i>AHA! Yes, this would be why. >>
<< <i>Here's your link to pics Images
You might be best to contact someone who specializes in IHC.
I can think of a few names... but dare not mention as getting tarred and feathered doesn't seem like much fun.
Perhaps you are confused Broadstruck?
This fellow has a "poor" scan of a coin he sent to a dealer for possible attribution as a "closed 3" possible error or pattern IHC. When the dealer said negative on the error or pattern and returned the coin, this fellow is claiming that the dealer sent a different coin back! The lighter scan is of the coin that was returned.
The first time this fellow posted this, there was a mutual agreement that the obverse scans presented were in fact the same coin imaged under different conditions. This latest post is presenting photo's in his photobucket account. The side by side graphics are not even his but were created by some other forum member. He's also enlarged some of the original photo's using the photobucket editor so in actuality, nothing has really changed. No new shots, no new photo's, nothing! Just the same old sob story. He still thinks that this "dealer" ripped him off when the reality of the situation is that the coin he sent and the coin he received are in fact the same coin with different graphic presentations.
Onekram:
In the image above I have circled the areas of both graphics which tell me that this is the same coin.
1. The rim hit is present on both graphics.
2. The dot is presnt on both coins.
3. And this is the kicker for me, the discoloration of the coin is identical in both shape and location for both coins!
You received the same coin back as you sent! End of story, get over it, let it go because with the poor scans you have presented, you cannot prove otherwise. One thing that you will prove is that you are fully capable of whipping a dead horse which is what this situation appears to be.
Had you taken detailed photographs before sending your coin out, it may have been a different story but you didn;t.
BTW, what dealer was this?
The name is LEE!
The name is LEE!
The name is LEE!
The name is LEE!
19Lyds, thanks I didn't fall off the turnip truck yet
I'm aware that this is the same coin as was sent... as far as being anything other then a variety if onekram is still questioning if his IHC is a Error or Trial Piece after 3 identical posts it might be time to shop this somewhere else
<< <i>He's been to CONECA as well! >>
<< <i>He's been to CONECA as well! >>
Well based on the date and the lone reply to that post, I think we know who the dealer was now.
I've never been so happy to have a job that does not require me to interact with the general public.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>What about this one?? >>
The www.coinpeople.com post is my fav!
onekram, if your lonely... buy a puppy!
<< <i>Why do I feel like I am in the movie Ground Hog Day? >>
As for the “condition of this coin” such as the “digit / date location etc” and Headband “liberty” on this coin; this is a strong indication of (coin counterfeit) who is unable to deviate from that perspective of details.
Approach the coin on this aspect before jumping into the fire with everyone else stating “same coin”.
When in Fact the coin sent in “about fine condition” when received the different coin it’s in “Very Fine condition”?
This is as simple as I can get when trying to make my point.
Thank you for your time.
onekram
As for the “condition of this coin” such as the “digit / date location etc” and Headband “liberty” on this coin; this is a strong indication of (coin counterfeit) who is unable to deviate from that perspective of details.
Approach the coin on this aspect before jumping into the fire with everyone else stating “same coin”.
When in Fact the coin sent in “about fine condition” when received the different coin it’s in “Very Fine condition”?
This is as simple as I can get when trying to make my point.
Thank you for your time.
onekram