King of Siam Set - Slabbed or in Original Case?

Coinosaurus

Another thread indicates that the King of Siam set is currently slabbed and outside its original case.

What exactly is the point of slabbing this set? Can it possibly be worth more in plastic than in its original case?

Would anyone who can afford it (and expert numismatic counsel to boot) really care?

Bochiman

I don't own it, and I am not an expert, but I can think of 2 clear reasons to do the slabbing....

Safety - wear from being in the original case may be occuring
Value - rather than negotiate seller/buyer difference in grade, it can now be negotiated from the TPGS' grade

lordmarcovan

I would slab it for safety, I guess, but it would be awfully hard not to display it in the lovely original case.

I suppose one could put really nice (and I mean really nice) replicas in the original case for display purposes, and keep the originals in a vault somewhere.

savoyspecial

if you're asking my preferrence then it's original case all the way......slabbing a coin like this is a waste of time and energy in my opinion......an interested party in a coin like this would likely know what he or she was looking at without the "help" of a grader to authenticate it......also, any grade that might be assigned would be a "gift" (read: 2 points or more inflated) as these trophy coins are graded with a forgiving eye

JRocco

If I owned that set I would keep it raw and hire 2 really attractive blond mercenaries with automatic Uzi's to guard it 24/7 and show me their....I mean the coins anytime I wanted to see them.

halfhunter

When I hit the Mega Millions lotto, I'll crack'em and place them back where they belong.

Regards, John

JoeLewis

Maybe PCGS can slab the entire case! Wow, that would be one giant slab!

lasvegasteddy

i'd think in slabs

the coins are now protected and pedigreed as such and the grade is insignaficant.

i'd hope the box is encased too to prolong it's life

it's something i would of done too

sumdunce

I would slab it.

As careful as I am, over the years far too many of my coins have made their way to the floor (in and out of slabs).



S

Halfsense

In addition to the original case that housed the set, there also is the ship's log from the diplomatic mission indicating the date when the set was delivered by a U.S. envoy to the King of Siam.

-donn-

Swampboy

One reason I would have the King of Siam Set slabbed is so I could take them down
to the beach and enjoy them.

TavernTreasures

In the original case only the obverses can be viewed.

Steve27

Too bad those coins are slabbed, there was no reason to do so:




"PCGS assigned the following grades to the King of Siam set coins:

* 1804 $10 (Plain 4), PCGS PR 64 Cameo
* 1834 $5 Classic Head, PCGS PR 65 Cameo
* 1834 $2.50 Classic Head, PCGS PR 64 Cameo
* 1804 $1 Class 1, PCGS PR 67
* 1834 Half Dollar, PCGS PR 65
* 1834 Quarter Dollar, PCGS PR 65
* 1834 Dime, PCGS PR 67
* 1834 Half Dime, PCGS PR 66
* 1834 Large Cent, PCGS PR 66 Red/Brown
* 1834 Half Cent, PCGS PR 66 Red/Brown
* 1833 Andrew Jackson gold medal, PCGS PR 63 Cameo"

abitofthisabitofthat

Original case all the way.

A different question - If you owned the set, and were offered outrageous money for a coin or two, would you consider breaking it up? I would never. But if the set were owned by an "Investor", do you feel that there is some sort of moral obligation to hold the set together? Curious as to other opinions.

MidLifeCrisis

<< <i>Safety - wear from being in the original case may be occuring
Value - rather than negotiate seller/buyer difference in grade, it can now be negotiated from the TPGS' grade >>


I agree. Ya gotta slab the set for these reasons at least. I understand the desire to keep it in the original case, and it certainly looks better that way...but my concern for protecting the coins would outweigh any aesthetic reasons.

PerryHall

<< <i>

<< <i>Safety - wear from being in the original case may be occuring
Value - rather than negotiate seller/buyer difference in grade, it can now be negotiated from the TPGS' grade >>


I agree. Ya gotta slab the set for these reasons at least. I understand the desire to keep it in the original case, and it certainly looks better that way...but my concern for protecting the coins would outweigh any aesthetic reasons. >>



Agree. Slabs provide far better protection than the original case. The grades aren't really relevant in this instance.

messydesk

<< <i>If I owned that set I would keep it raw and hire 2 really attractive blond mercenaries with automatic Uzi's to guard it 24/7 and show me their....I mean the coins anytime I wanted to see them.
>>

Qadaffi may have a few extra bodyguards you could use. They're not blonde, though.

As for slabbing the coins or not, I don't think it affects the value of the coins, but I would want the protection offered, especially if I wanted to look at the reverses of the coins. The grades assigned are also fairly irrelevant, since there aren't several KoS proof sets containing coins of varying grades. Also, separating the coins from their siblings seems wrong. So if I could afford that set and bought it raw, I would have them graded and photographed by PCGS primarily for the purpose of certifying their provenance and present condition, and then put in a multi-coin holder. The holder would not be of PCGS's making, but would be one designed to be of the same size, layout and color as the inside of the KoS display case.

NHSBaseball

I absolutely have to agree with Steve- why slab such an important and historic set? I think the presentation box is as much a part of the set as the coins themselves. JMO.

19Lyds

<< <i>What exactly is the point of slabbing this set? Can it possibly be worth more in plastic than in its original case?

Would anyone who can afford it (and expert numismatic counsel to boot) really care? >>



There was no reason at all to slab the set. For those folks stating "for the safety and protection of the coins", this set has done just fine for the past 174 years!

Now here's something to think about:

Do you suppose those coins were in a protective environment on their original voyage to Siam aboard the USS Peacock amidst all that salt air?

After that, do you suppose the King had them stored in a "protective" enviroment in that humid, hot Thailand environment?

I think the coins have done quite well since they were originally presented and having them slabbed for protective reasons is a bit frivolous given their current stature in the coin world and their investment value. But thats just my opinion.

Placid

Two of the coins in the set are known not to be the originals. So the set has already been compromised.

Longacre

Leave it raw. A set of this magnitude does not need to be slabbed to determine value. If the set gets sold, I am sure the deep pocketed collectors can hire a battery of PCGS or NGC graders to give an opinion on grade prior to the sale.

BBQnBLUES

Slabbed or Raw ? "It's a Puzzlement"

BECOKA

I think a custom multi holder slab is justified for protecting this set. Possibly another custom slab to protect it's original case as well. Part 1 or 2 and Part 2 of 2.

MidLifeCrisis

<< <i>There was no reason at all to slab the set. For those folks stating "for the safety and protection of the coins", this set has done just fine for the past 174 years!

Now here's something to think about:

Do you suppose those coins were in a protective environment on their original voyage to Siam aboard the USS Peacock amidst all that salt air?

After that, do you suppose the King had them stored in a "protective" enviroment in that humid, hot Thailand environment?

I think the coins have done quite well since they were originally presented and having them slabbed for protective reasons is a bit frivolous given their current stature in the coin world and their investment value. But thats just my opinion. >>


Sure these coins have "done just fine for the past 174 years". But for most of that time they cost their owner a small fraction of what it would cost to own them today. I suspect in the early years they were valued at not much more than face. Plus, the King and others did not have the option to slab them for protection like we do now. I'll stick to my original choice and have them slabbed to protect the coins and to protect my investment.

Doogy

<< <i>Too bad those coins are slabbed, there was no reason to do so:




"PCGS assigned the following grades to the King of Siam set coins:

* 1804 $10 (Plain 4), PCGS PR 64 Cameo
* 1834 $5 Classic Head, PCGS PR 65 Cameo
* 1834 $2.50 Classic Head, PCGS PR 64 Cameo
* 1804 $1 Class 1, PCGS PR 67
* 1834 Half Dollar, PCGS PR 65
* 1834 Quarter Dollar, PCGS PR 65
* 1834 Dime, PCGS PR 67
* 1834 Half Dime, PCGS PR 66
* 1834 Large Cent, PCGS PR 66 Red/Brown
* 1834 Half Cent, PCGS PR 66 Red/Brown
* 1833 Andrew Jackson gold medal, PCGS PR 63 Cameo" >>




looks like PCGS agreed with NGC's grades (or vice versa). here are the coins in NGC slabs:

click here

Doogy

.....and here is the granddaddy to the King of Siam $10, IMHO the most stunning US gold coin in existence

here

Doogy

another funny example of gradeflation, a race to the top!


"The pieces in the King of Siam set were graded and encapsulated by PCGS in June 2004, the second time the grading service examined the coins.

The set was first graded by Numismatic Guaranty Corporation of America in 1989. PCGS graded the coins in the set in 1990. NGC graded coins in the set again in 2001, with PCGS grading the coins again three years later. Some of the coins changed in grade by one grade point, while others stayed the same as a result of PCGS’s 2004 assessment. Arguably the most high profile coin, the Class 1 1804 Draped Bust dollar, was graded Proof 65 by NGC in 1989. PCGS agreed with that assessment in 1990. Eleven years later, NGC boosted the grade a full two points to Proof 67 and PCGS now agrees.

Also, in 1989, NGC rated the 1834 Coronet cent as Proof 65 brown and PCGS agreed in 1990. When NGC graded the same coin in 2001, the coin garnered a Proof 66 red and brown designation and now PCGS agrees. "

19Lyds

<< <i>Two of the coins in the set are known not to be the originals. So the set has already been compromised. >>



Does anybody have any information on the above statement?

Such as:

Which two were replaced?

When was it "discovered" the two coins had been replaced and what were the circumstances around that discovery to perhaps put a timeline into when the replacements occured?

Placid

<< <i>

<< <i>Two of the coins in the set are known not to be the originals. So the set has already been compromised. >>



Does anybody have any information on the above statement?

Such as:

Which two were replaced?

When was it "discovered" the two coins had been replaced and what were the circumstances around that discovery to perhaps put a timeline into when the replacements occured? >>



"The set also contains an 1833 gold medal depicting President Jackson. Although believed to be part of the set when delivered to the King of Siam in 1836, the half dime and Jackson medal were not included when the set turned up in London a half century ago. The two present replacements were included by subsequent owners more than a decade ago to fashion the set as it probably looked when presented to the King."

I love how they use more than a decade to try to make it sound like a long time ago.

Story can be found
here.

Aegis3

<< <i>Agree. Slabs provide far better protection than the original case. >>



It;s quite apparent. When slabbed from the case after over a century the dollar only got to be a 65 coin. However, after only a mere few short years in a slab the dollar had enough safety and protection to then get slabbed as a 67 coin! So clearly slabs are better than the case. Just, think, in a decade or two we'll need to introduce new grades as the coin becomes ever better protected in its sterile slab.

OneCent

<< <i>If I owned that set I would keep it raw and hire 2 really attractive blond mercenaries with automatic Uzi's to guard it 24/7 and show me their....I mean the coins anytime I wanted to see them.
>>



I agree with this statement.

JRocco

<< <i>

<< <i>Agree. Slabs provide far better protection than the original case. >>



It;s quite apparent. When slabbed from the case after over a century the dollar only got to be a 65 coin. However, after only a mere few short years in a slab the dollar had enough safety and protection to then get slabbed as a 67 coin! So clearly slabs are better than the case. Just, think, in a decade or two we'll need to introduce new grades as the coin becomes ever better protected in its sterile slab. >>



All kidding aside you bring up a great point Ed.
If a third major plastic company comes on the scene and really challenges the big two I bet they would upgrade the coin again to get it into their holder. Then after two trips back to the other 2 big players it will be a 70+ coin within the decade.
Plastic must be good for coins...so good that it can actually improve the coins surfaces.

pennyannie

UNSLABBED.

PCcoins

IMO I would slab them.

COALPORTER

Let's slab "widgets" and leave the most important coins raw ?


This is exactly what slabs are for !!

PS, Wasn't the King's set lacquered at one point ?

MORGANHUNTER2

A chunk of lucite seems to be pinging in my ears

and yes the coins were lacquered a very long time ago.

simply stupid to slab individually no matter what pedigree you put to them.





I want one of the 33 missing Saints that the guberment now has.

Swampboy

If they were lacquered wouldn't they BB?

Placid

<< <i>If they were lacquered wouldn't they BB? >>


No, lacquer is easy to remove. Acetone will dissolve it. A lot of coins were lacquered to preserve them in the 1800's.
Even today they lacquer the olympic medals so they stay looking good after being handled/worn.

Swampboy

<< <i>

<< <i>If they were lacquered wouldn't they BB? >>


No, lacquer is easy to remove. Acetone will dissolve it. A lot of coins were lacquered to preserve them in the 1800's.
Even today they lacquer the olympic medals so they stay looking good after being handled/worn. >>



I did not know that. Thanks.

Shamika

<< <i>Can it possibly be worth more in plastic than in its original case?

Would anyone who can afford it (and expert numismatic counsel to boot) really care? >>

No and No.

pontiacinf

Last time I viewed the set it was at the worlds fair of money in NY in 2002. At that time they were in NGC slabs, did they get crossed over?

I have pictures of the show, Ill pop em in later