Question on approval practice

RYK

I have received scores of coins on approval from dealers and fellow collectors, and I have never had a problem transaction. I have also sent dozens of coins on approval to fellow collectors without a problem.

When I receive a coin on approval, if I should return the coin, I always send a check for $25 with the coin to cover the cost of outbound postage. My only exception to this rule is when a seller send me multiple items, and I keep a few and send some back, I do not send a token postage payment back to the dealer. I feel that the price of outbound postage is buried in the price of the materials that I have purchased, and there is no need for additional payment.

Recently, I received an unsolicited offer from a fellow collector for a coin. It was not a part of my core collection, and I agreed to ship the coin to the fellow collector, someone with whom I had never previously had a transaction, on approval. As I expected, the collector elected not to keep the coin and, to his credit, promptly returned the coin to me. I was mildly irked by the whole process, but the icing on the cake was getting stiffed for the outbound postage.

When I am disturbed by these little things, it occurs to me that my expectations may not be reasonable. Obviously, the $20 or so is not going to make or break me. Perhaps it is not standard practice to pay for the outbound shipping for a returned coin. Maybe I am a fool for sending checks for $25 to Doug Winter or Legend Numismatics or whomever when I do not keep a coin. Please set me straight on this issue.

SilverEagles92

I don't think any one receiving a coin on approval is obligated to pay postage. After all, both dealer and collector (or whatever the situation may be) are essentially out the same amount of money since both parties end up paying shipping for the coin(s). If you elect to pay the dealer's shipping cost, that is up to you. But, the dealer likely chalks it up to the cost of doing business.

wondercoin

collector is out the same money you are by having to send the coin back to you at his expense (and probably equally dssapointed that the coin did not "measure up" to his standards). He should not have to pay 2x.

I received a postage check along with a coin once (as you send). I never cashed it.

Wondercoin

ldhair

Most probably don't cover the postage both ways but I have when I feel I'm being a bit too picky.

stman

To answer your question...... if you received an unsolicited offer IMO the tight-wad that asked you to send it should at least pay your postage. I know I would.

Now, also on the subject is something that chaps my hide. When a dealer receives a coin back from me I want to know they received it in good condition (and that I'm not responsible for it any longer), and not just by tracking. When I have had to send a coin back I ask them "Please let me know you received it back." I would also include either a check, or throw a 20.00 bill in the box for their postage. 99% of the dealers (and these are the so-called good guys) never tell me they received the package back, let alone tell me thanks for the nice thought of returning their postage. I sometimes send cash, because a couple said they didn't expect me to pay, and it was the cost of doing business. BUT, I knew they wouldn't send the cash back.

So, unfortunately since most of the dealers that couldn't give me the courtesy to give me a quick email saying at least "Package received"..... it sure doesn't make me want to keep doing this. Yes, I know they are "Busy" the worlds excuse by default. But they sure have time to email if I want to buy a coin. BTW, it's not often I return a coin, but these days with the prices and the glowing descriptions...... I ask questions in advance and still find the coin different in person. Sometimes, from the "good guys" too.

19Lyds

I think that as long as the item was returned to you in the same manner that it was sent that it's a push! But, you do bring up a good point.

This was an "unsolicited" request which did cost you money to ship out.

You are not a dealer and therefore not subject to the same "cost of doing business" rules.

Perhaps future "unsolicited" requests should be followed with a request for outbound postage which would be taken off the agreed upon price should the lookie-lou decide to purchase the coin? Otherwise, even though it may not affect your economic position, it could get quite expensive for a single individual serving multiple prospective buyers that want to "look" at your coin.

RYK

I appreciate the responses to the thread, so far. I did not realize that the my practice was out of the ordinary.



<< <i>collector is out the same money you are by having to send the coin back to you at his expense (and probably equally dssapointed that the coin did not "measure up" to his standards). He should not have to pay 2x. >>



As far as the coin not measuring up, I was about 90% sure that the fellow was not going to keep the coin even before seeing it. A couple days after he requested my coin, he purchased a low-end, low-grade example of the same issue on ebay and posted it all over the forum.

tradedollarnut

I would have stated up front that you expected to be reimbursed for postage if he didn't keep the coin. That would have prevented hard feelings all the way around.

Having not done so, I say you just have to write it off mentally.

SilverEagles92

<< <i>I appreciate the responses to the thread, so far. I did not realize that the my practice was out of the ordinary.



<< <i>collector is out the same money you are by having to send the coin back to you at his expense (and probably equally dssapointed that the coin did not "measure up" to his standards). He should not have to pay 2x. >>



As far as the coin not measuring up, I was about 90% sure that the fellow was not going to keep the coin even before seeing it. A couple days after he requested my coin, he purchased a low-end, low-grade example of the same issue on ebay and posted it all over the forum. >>



That's a different story. If the buyer purchased another coin before even receiving your coin, then absolutely - he should pay postage, and extra for wasting your time and money.

stman

I can also say RYK and I have done a couple deals in the past. Both of us sent the sending person funds for their shipping when it wasn't even discussed. No coins were returned though, just a courtesy.......perhaps it is just built into us to try and be nice. I may be a jerk to some, but I do good business and am fair.

Also, I always thought my parents raised me very well with manners to say the simple things like "Thanks." I rarely see this in the coin market. Perhaps I wasn't raised properly.

RYK

<< <i>I can also say RYK and I have done a couple deals in the past. Both of us sent the sending person funds for their shipping when it wasn't even discussed. No coins were returned though, just a courtesy.......perhaps it is just built into us to try and be nice. I may be a jerk to some, but I do good business and am fair.

Also, I always thought my parents raised me very well with manners to say the simple things like "Thanks." I rarely see this in the coin market. Perhaps I wasn't raised properly. >>



Actually, Steve even sent me extra money to stop at Starbuck's on the way to the post office but not enough to cover a pizza on the way home.

stman

No, I don't pay for lunch, just a snack is all. hahaha

fcloud

As a collector, if I sent a coin out to someone on approval. In my wildest dreams I would not expect to receive postage back from the second party if they didn't want, need, or whatever. You may possibly be going too far in paying for their postage to send it to you if they did not request the postage be paid by you. I would think it was part of business.

Now, on the other hand, if I requested a coin, and previous to the beginning of the transaction I was told if I didn't buy it I would need to pay the postage for the shipment of the coin both ways. I would be fine with that. I guess I need to be warned ahead of time, but would be fine with it.

wondercoin

RYK - I undestand, which is why I put in quotes those words and mentioned "his standards". I have little doubt the coin was exactly as it should have been.

Wondercoin

tradedollarnut

<< <i>collector is out the same money you are by having to send the coin back to you at his expense (and probably equally dssapointed that the coin did not "measure up" to his standards). He should not have to pay 2x.

I received a postage check along with a coin once (as you send). I never cashed it.

Wondercoin >>



I do think there's a distinct difference between a dealer [who is in the business of sending coins to collectors] and a collector who was solicited for a coin that wasn't even for sale.

roadrunner

I agree with RYK 100%, which makes us both dinosaurs.

My philosophy is if a seller misdescribes a coin and wastes my time and my postage money, then by all means he should pay both ways. I know I would. While I don't usually see a penny in postage for all the times this has happened to me, those same sellers never see me again either.

But I have to add that before doing such a thing, I'd describe the coin in all its flaws in massive detail. I want the potential buyer to have all the advantages of what I know about it. But this "service" is for collectors, not dealers who do this for part or all of their living. The last time I did this I had a very presentable ogh FH half that a fellow CU member wished to look at. I was offered a very strong price on paper but something didn't feel right. I didn't want to waste my time or his and proceeded to list every fault on the coin. That included about 2 pages and 2 dozen or so "problems." These were all legitimate and accurate comments and deserved to be put out up front. Needless to say the collector passed after reading that email. It was not the near perfect ogh coin he was looking for.

Like RYK, I don't like sending stuff out on approval because I know 90% or more comes back for whatever reason. It's just far simpler to take stuff to shows.

roadrunner

TomB

Although I view myself as strictly a collector, I have had transactions with quite a few folks who have responded in this thread. The way that I attempt to proceed is that I send off the best images that I can and also provide an "interpretation" of how the image on my monitor differs from the coin in-hand as well as a detailed opinion of the coin. I don't know that I have ever received a coin back when there was only a single coin in a transaction, though I have received small groups back when larger groups have been sent. It would not be my expectation to be paid for my postage in these cases.

Longacre

Other than paying to send the coins back to a dealer (if there is no return FedEx envelope included), are collectors obligated to put an extra check for the dealer? I have done this in the past, but I thought it was not normal practice. I would think that postage was already factored into the prices, but perhaps it is normal to help out the dealer a little bit and help him pay for postage, especially since the coins are priced at razor thin margins to begin with.

GrumpyEd

In most cases if the buyer saw pics and asked to see it for approval I think it's fair that the buyer pay return shipping if they don't buy the coin. If the dealer stated up front that "if you don't buy it you pay all shipping" that's ok as long as it was stated before sending the coin.

Still not a bad deal for the buyer, they get to see it in hand.

I don't normaly do this because of the shipping efforts but I've seen a lot of coins that I might buy if the dealer was willing to send it for approval and if I didn't like it I would not mind paying the shipping.

People need to ask before sending, agree who pays and not assume without asking, cover the details like shipping method and insurance and even a rough timeframe for shipping it.

IGWT

I think it's fair that a collector and dealer split the cost of the deal that doesn't happen, i.e., each pays for the cost of delivery to the other. A dealer once sent me a coin that was sprouting verdigris like bacteria in a petri dish. Was I supposed to pay his postage cost as well as the return postage?

RYK's situation -- unsolicted request from another collector -- is completely different.

bidask

A fellow collector I would do such a thing reminburse postage.

A professional dealer I would not. My attitude for them it should be the cost of doing business.

stman

Good timing for this thread. I haven't asked a dealer to send me anything on approval for quite some time. Now this is a dealer that I could trust his descriptions in the past.
The coins (2) were priced strong and I was OK with that if they were all there. I just came back from PO and sent both back, I received them today as well.

This happens to be a dealer that a while back I returned a coin and sent 20.00 for their shipping to me. I asked that I be notified they were received. I did not get notified.
Needless to say. I did not send any postage their way because if I can't at least get the courtesy they receive it back..... I'm not giving money away to get aggravated.

I have no intention to ask for any more coins from this outfit, and they do get nice ones once in a while. I'm tired of getting circ bust material that have glowing descriptions, I ask a question or two, I get a coin that is glossy looking and has been boinked with. Many would call it "crusty" but they are not. With the strong prices still, I think in the past anything would stick so they just describe everything as being original.

BTW, RYK sent me extra $$$$ for a snack as well.