This wasn't a question posed to "just an underbidder". This was a question posed to another friendly board member. I think this is on a different level.
Hey Goose: The next time you bid (honestly) nearly $10,000 on a MODERN NICKEL and get "run up" to $8000 or $9000 by bidder(s) who have publicly opposed modern coins for the past year and have warned against the purchase of them or by bidder(s) with no intention of winning, you may BEGIN to understand the other side of this situation. There is another side you know Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
One last time for clarity. The RESERVE was not met. No one was "run up". When a reserve is not met, the item is not sold. It wouldn't matter if I bid you all the way to your max. Your bid did not meet the reserve so you, at that time, were not in the running to buy the coin anyway. Not sure where there is an issue. If the reserve was met, or it was a No Reserve auction, it would be different.
I am still a little miffed that I was outbid too. This is the person who ran the bid to over $9,500. That means he is still leaving over $1,000 on the table right now.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
Come on Mitch, remember some people consider pre-64 "classics." Maybe dbldie55 is one of those guys. And since he does apparantly like nickels, maybe he was looking for one for a Type set.
One of two things will happen with this piece -- there will be a flurry of activity at the end and the bid will not matter, or, there will be no additional bidders, the reserve will not be met, and the bid will not matter.
Does anyone know who "randowitz" is on E-Bay? I know all the other bidders or former bidders, but his is the one I wasn't familiar with.
When this thread went up, I doubt that anyone would have guessed it would have had 54 posts – so let me make it 55.
I think several of you are missing, or at least ignoring Mitch’s point, which is this: Suppose an item doesn’t have its reserve met, and there are one or more extraneous or meaningless underbids. In that case, the would-be seller sees more interested bidders than there really are and may well see a bid higher than what would have shown if there were no extraneous bids. He then erroneously concludes there is more demand for the item than is really the case.
The seller may then reoffer the item, but not knock the reserve down as much as someone like wc might like him too, or he may be harder to negotiate with off-eBay.
Nonetheless, no one can dispute that dbldie55 has every right to do what he did. I hope he never gets surprised!!! You might try bookmarking.
Incidentally, I emailed eBay to suggest they increase the limit of 20-watches, but my experience with eBay is that it is like tossing a coin (unslabbed) into a bottomless pit. You keep waiting for the splash, but it never comes.
I see your point, Gerry, but since the bidder said he would have taken the coin for what he bid, that wouldn't seem to apply in this case. If the bidder will honor his bid, in my mind that is a "true" demand (for lack of a better term), not a misleading amount of demand.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
This is one of the problems with high reserve auctions. I don't know the cure, but if the seller really wants to sell his coin, then let everyone know what the reserve is. I am not sure what happens to fees for these very expensive items that do not sell (too lazy to look up eBay rules).
I can see both sides of the argument and they are inherent in any auction for high ticket items with a high reserve. You never truly know where the real demand lies. All of which suggests that the coin was way overpriced (caveat, I don't know this market) or there would have been far more activity. I wonder what would have happened if this were offered for $1.00 and no reserve. Any thoughts on the final hammer in that case?
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
I just don't comprehend all the fuss. DD55 certainly has inspired quite a thread at the very least!
Say for arguments sake the reserve was 11,000. 55DD bids 10,999.99 on it and the item ends at whatever amount but reserve Not met. What does it matter? (unless you had hoped with your bid to wind up high bidder and to strike a side deal-which is what I would do)
Or am I missing your argument???? Are you saying that his bid skews reality and gives the impression the coin is hotter than the few of you think. I would agree with you on that IF he was high bidder on the coin when it closed but from what I've read here it seems at least 2 others "ran" it up to around 9500??
Whose fault is it if an Ebay seller erroneously concludes something?// I remember several months ago when WC bid right at $3500 on Ebay for a 1970(s)PCGS MS65FS nickel and didn't win. WC was outbid by about $25. One of the underbidders had bid $1500. Was this $1500 bid meaningless? Today if another '70(s)PCGS MS65FS nickel appeared on Ebay, would a $1500 or a $2000 bid be meaningless?// Late last year one of the bd members put up one of those #1-#100 PCGS NY WTC Quarters on Ebay. He posted that the reserve was $550. Some of the bd members were anxious to push the price up to almost $500. The reserve ended up not being met. Did that mean that there were about a half dozen or so people ready to buy one of these WTC quarters at over $400? Probably not.// What if a 1926(s) PCGS MS65 Buffalo nickel was started on Ebay at $1 with a reserve. What if this particular seller was known for setting high reserve prices and the coin ended the auction period with a high bid of only $150.00 (reserve not met.) Would this $150.00 bid for this '26(s) PCGS MS65 nickel taint the marketplace?
Goose: I believe you might be missing something. But first, I am not commenting here on other bidders in this auction; it wouldn't be appropriate. But, let's look at dbldie55's bid. When it was placed, he had NO IDEA he wouldn't be hitting the reserve-right? Let's say he did hit the reserve with his bid placed "to have fun"-then what? Yes, I heard he would have had to honor it, especially because he heard that the "expert" (me?) said it was worth closer to $10,000. So then what? Would he have sold it to me, the underbidder!!
I have never minded stepping up and paying strong money for great modern coins, but to be chasing dbldie55 of all people-geez, I've spent the past year addressing his challenges that coins such as this $10,000 modern Jefferson are a joke, tulips, etc. This is rediculous and the suggestion that dbldie55 was really just trying to be a "modern coin dealer" is even more absurb!! And, think about it, everything dbldie55 has said for the past year about the risks of buying moderns, but for a $1000 profit he would jump right in and flip one to a collector!!!!! COME ON!! All you guys jumping to dbldie55's defense remind me of the defense team in one of those famous murder trials a couple years ago
Listen, dbldie55, just come out and say that your bid in that auction was probably not well thought out when placed. I'd be fine with that Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
The photo on the auction page isn't working for me.
And I just noticed the item description says this is a "select choice gem brilliant uncirculated" piece. I guess that covers all bases!
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
My bid was well thought out. The amount was too strange to make it meet the reserve. I could have been wrong but felt safe in my assumptions, but before anyone even noticed my bid, I was outbid by around $1,400. You kept thinking I bid a lot more than I did. If I would thought in the least that it would meet the reserve, I would not have bid. I place my potential winning bids within the last two minutes of an auction.
Remember, if my goal was to "run you up" as you have stated, I would have placed bids in each increment until I found your high bid. Since you had not met the reserve, I would be safe until I got close, unless the reserve is in a very odd amount. That was not my plan.
During a murder trial, it is assumed that someone did something wrong. I did nothing wrong. Please show me the Ebay rule that states you cannot bid on an item with a reserve. If the reserve was met, and I won, and did not honor the bid, I would be in the wrong, but certainly not by what I did. If someone "makes a deal" outside of Ebay, then they are doing something against the rules, but I did not.
What kind of lawyer were you again?
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
One more point. You were never chasing me. I had never had a higher bid than you. I would have been chasing you. Now I would be chasing the current high bidder. The one who "run" you up.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
Forget the "legal" stuff (i.e. "my bid was legal")- just please tell us why you were bidding $8000+ on a modern Jefferson nickel in the firstplace that books at around $5 in gem grade? Your position on modern coins is well documented on these boards. The notion that you were buying this coin to flip to a collector for $9,000 or $10,000 is entirely foreign to my understanding of your firm and constant position on these modern coins (i.e. the "tulips", future price crash, unhappy modern collectors, etc-does all this go away if one can "flip" a modern coin to a collector for a grand profit)
Honestly, have you ever bought a Jefferson nickel in your life for more than say $300? This may sound "argumentative, but it really isn't. My post asked a simple question which never really was answered logically: Why did you just bid more than $8,000 on a Jefferson Nickel? I believe you basically said you saw an opportunity to make a grand or two flipping the coin as the sole purpose-right? OK, I'll "buy that" and glad to have you aboard as the newest modern coin dealer on the boards not afraid to pay close to "5 figures" for a MS Jefferson nickel that bids at around $5 in gem grade! But, then don't be hypocritical and come on like "Mother Theresa" against those modern sellers that routinely offer this stuff out either-right? If it's OK for a "classic" guy like yourself to pay close to "five figures" for a modern coin (which in the undergrade is worth around a couple hundred dollars) for the opportunity to flip it to a collector for a "grand or two" profit, then, baby, you've "crossed the line" and welcome to the wacky world of modern coins!! Wondercoin. P.S. I've said it before-you are my pal-did you get my gift yet - I delivered with your buddy Dale last week?
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I'm glad you decided that the "I'd rather fight, than switch" approach wasn't going to work. Welcome to the Moderns, DD55. May we send you our want lists? I look forward to hearing you "stand up" for your newly found market on our boards. Again, congratulations on the switch, and Welcome.
I consider the coin in the same light as a Walker from the forties (not sure I have ever said anything bad about them). Plus, unlike the rest of the junk being minted today, Nickels have the same weight, size and metal content that was used for the 1883 No Cent nickel way back when. Same metal content as was used in the first nickel (just the size changed a bit in 1883). I may still complete a full set of Mint State Jeffersons. I first want to finish my Liberty Nickel set. Unfortunately, that includes a J-1690 and a 1913.
Also, I did not bid $8,000. We are approching 70 comments about nothing. What if it was me that bid $12,500 on the PR70 95W eagle. Would it matter? It did not sell either. I felt "safe" with my bid. If I would have known that it would upset you so much I may not have done it (but it may have encouraged me to do it as well)
This whole thread is moot as the reserve was not met by my bid (or yours). My reasons behind it are irrelevant, and I will continue to bid on reserve auctions I want to watch. I don't look at my watch list, I do look at my bids list. (they are not in the same place)
Your gift is still in California. Hope Dale goes to Long Beach to retrieve it. Looking forward to receiving it.
Bottom line: I placed a bid that I was very confident would not meet the reserve so that I could watch this auction. That is the entire reason behind my bid. The thought that I may be "running up" your bid never entered my mind. I hind sight, it turns out that my bid was very safe from reaching the reserve. Why are you so upset? This is the question I have. Perhaps I should start another thread?
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
Damn, I missed the end of the auction (and was not even high bidder, let alone the reserve met). But I did buy a Shield Nickel book for an opening bid I did not expect to win with.
I don't think I have ever said that these people (modern collectors) would be unhappy, I know that I have never used the Tulip comparison. I have used the fact that this same scenario happened to Classics in the '80s and people may want to consider that. A coin like this may be immune (some are, many are not). But paying David Hall $195 for a coin that is sold elsewhere for $45 (another thread on the US board) makes just paying to receive something crazy. Wondercoin is now selling MS68 state quarters for $135 (what was the high amount paid for this coin?), with multiples to go around. Certainly not for every state quarter, but for some.
But hey, I am looking at a coin with a "pop" of 25! Certainly not rare by many people's standards, except the "pop" is the number known, not the number certified in a given grade!
Some people just like to live in secret (give me a bid, and I will accept or deny), and do not like that their potential high bid was revealed (but not by me, but someone else that appears immune from this thread).
Happy trails.
Like I have said in the past. Collect what you like, and like what you collect. ( I have a collection of whiskey bottles among other things )
Edited because I cannot spell ( I am a numbers person, which is why I basically knew the reserve would not be met with my bid )
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
> In general, I wonder how many bids on ebay are made just to put the lot > on "a 'secondary' watch list". I would think this type of action would > taint the "pure marketplace", skewing the supply/demand balance, and > therefore affect prices, again, speaking in generalities.
It doesn't skew the supply/demand balance because everyone should know that what sells for $12K to one person, would draw interest from more people at $10K and still more at $8K.
The only thing this should do is possibly lead people to believe that there is a large, stable market for an item moderately below its market price. A buyer could decide that the item couldn't fall in value too much because they think there are plenty of people willing to buy the item for a 20% discount. But I don't think people bid on expensive "modern" coins because they think that they shouldn't fall in value too much.
The idea that people will bid up an item to an appropriate (market) level is the proof that the market is efficient. If I see a $400 Ike that is only bid up to $200, it's likely I'll bid on it. There's free money on the table. Why would I let someone else have it? Again that's the definition of an efficient market.
> I only bid $8,000, but I knew it was below the reserve (at least by your comments I figured it was). WC, It sounds like DD thought his bid was safe based on info you gave him. Was this discussed in a thread before he bid? If so I'm guessing you'll keep you estimates of worth to yourself until the action is over next time.
So, WC wanted to know why DD bid a lot of money on something he isn't known to be interested in. DD said he wanted to track the item. The question has been asked and answered. I think beyond this it's just bickering.
What the hell is wrong with placing a bid in an item that you don't intend to win. I do it quite often, so I can track it without adding it to my tracking list, or just to be friendly. It hurts nobody.
What a waste of space started again by guess who ,and guess again who comes to his recue to agree with him.The same old BS every day. It is NONE of your ** BUSINESS why he or any other person bids on an auction.If someone ever has a problem with one of my bids,I will tell them to F themselves. ok ?
Back to TV, Larry
Larry Shapiro Rare Coins - LSRC POB 854 Temecula CA 92593 310-541-7222 office 310-710-2869 cell www.LSRarecoins.com Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26 Baltimore July 14-17 Chicago August 11-15
ooooh, getting a bit testy, are we? Ok, the heat in the kitchen is moving up... Back to tv.....
Aren't we all friends here? Ask me why I bid on ANYTHING, and I wouldn't say F-U to ANYBODY here, and that's for sure. I think it's fair to ask a question... It IS just a question.
Steve: As you know, the people who protest the loudest often have the most to hide. When I bid on ebay for a coin , this board can feel free to put the "spotlights" on my bid. But, if I ever decided to bid for less than honorable reasons, I would scream too if you put a "flashlight" on it. Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Since when does a bid below the reserve have to be anything? Please stop calling me less than honorable for what I had done. I would do the same thing again without hesitation. I placed a bid, I did not win. (period) It really does not matter why I placed a bid, or on what. This is the beauty of America. It does not matter whether I think it is a good deal, or a bad deal. Your claim of a $10,000 value made a reserve below my bid very unlikely. I did not say I was going to buy it and try to make a profit. I may have bought it, went out and placed it on a tree and shot it like the other 1941-D I have laying around. (The bank hates that coin as it keeps getting stuck in their counters)
Remember, even if the reserve was met (which it was not), and the winner had to buy the coin (which they did not), and I was to bid you up to your max just to be a pain (something you would call less than honorable), it would still be doing nothing WRONG!
Perhaps we should contact Ebay and have them change the rules that you have to only bid on things you absolutely want (even if you bid an amount that will not buy it). And anytime you bid on something, and do not make a serious attempt to win the item it will count as a strike against you. Three strikes and you get suspended.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
I'm not quite sure how this thread progressed as far as it has and I am not inclined to read the whole thing to find out. Seems to me that a person can bid on anything they want and their motivations assuming we're not talking about shilling or something like that, are no one's business.
If he met reserve he would have had to buy the coin, if not then he's free of any obligation to buy, much less to explain himself. If some one here feels manipulated, well it certainly wouldn't be the first time activity for some of these coins has been just a little unusual.
You go PQ!!! How can anybody question what WC and P1 think?? The nerve!!! I mean, you KNOW they HAVE to be right, no matter what!! Oh well, I'll slink my way to the lesser forums. They seem friendlier
AKA kokimoki the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed Join the NRA and protect YOUR right to keep and bear arms To protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart. Theodore Roosevelt [L]http://www.ourfallensoldier.com/ThompsonMichaelE_MemorialPage.html[L]
Classic: Form over substance. Yep, that's right, feel free to bid $8000 on a Jefferson nickel so you could "thrown it in the river"-of course that is your right. No one has the right to question a collector's motivations or any bids on ebay. Glad we established that. I'm now satisfied everything has been explained. I'm ready to "move on" like Peace suggested
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Please don’t give it up guys – you are within striking distance (84 and counting) of the all-time record for posts to a thread, which I believe was recently set by wondercoin’s “This Is One Intelligent Group Overall; Who Are We?”
Now that’s an interesting contrast in topics to reflect upon, isn’t it? I hate to see records broken, but ...
Unfortunately this is just going to become a "broken record". "broken recor, broken recor, broken recor..." PS. I'm not sure if the 911 thread counts, but it was 364 posts, I think. But that was on the coin forum and the "old" board. I can't look it up anymore, I guess.
Well it seems $8000 or $9000 would have purchased this coin today. I was surprised to see it sold for $1775 and NOT $17,775. It's amazing what a month can do to prices!!!
(The Corso Collection) Always looking for high quality proof and full step Jeffersons - email me with details
Damn, I missed all of the action. I just happened to be a couple thousand miles from home serving as Best Man for my Best friend in his wedding. What a couple of days will do to someone!
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
Comments
This was a question posed to another friendly board member.
I think this is on a different level.
I am still a little miffed that I was outbid too. This is the person who ran the bid to over $9,500. That means he is still leaving over $1,000 on the table right now.
One of two things will happen with this piece -- there will be a flurry of activity at the end and the bid will not matter, or, there will be no additional bidders, the reserve will not be met, and the bid will not matter.
Does anyone know who "randowitz" is on E-Bay? I know all the other bidders or former bidders, but his is the one I wasn't familiar with.
Keith
I think several of you are missing, or at least ignoring Mitch’s point, which is this: Suppose an item doesn’t have its reserve met, and there are one or more extraneous or meaningless underbids. In that case, the would-be seller sees more interested bidders than there really are and may well see a bid higher than what would have shown if there were no extraneous bids. He then erroneously concludes there is more demand for the item than is really the case.
The seller may then reoffer the item, but not knock the reserve down as much as someone like wc might like him too, or he may be harder to negotiate with off-eBay.
Nonetheless, no one can dispute that dbldie55 has every right to do what he did. I hope he never gets surprised!!! You might try bookmarking.
Incidentally, I emailed eBay to suggest they increase the limit of 20-watches, but my experience with eBay is that it is like tossing a coin (unslabbed) into a bottomless pit. You keep waiting for the splash, but it never comes.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
I can see both sides of the argument and they are inherent in any auction for high ticket items with a high reserve. You never truly know where the real demand lies. All of which suggests that the coin was way overpriced (caveat, I don't know this market) or there would have been far more activity. I wonder what would have happened if this were offered for $1.00 and no reserve. Any thoughts on the final hammer in that case?
I just don't comprehend all the fuss. DD55 certainly has inspired quite a thread at the very least!
Say for arguments sake the reserve was 11,000. 55DD bids 10,999.99 on it and the item ends at whatever amount but reserve Not met. What does it matter? (unless you had hoped with your bid to wind up high bidder and to strike a side deal-which is what I would do)
Or am I missing your argument???? Are you saying that his bid skews reality and gives the impression the coin is hotter than the few of you think. I would agree with you on that IF he was high bidder on the coin when it closed but from what I've read here it seems at least 2 others "ran" it up to around 9500??
someone post a link to this auction!
when WC bid right at $3500 on Ebay for a 1970(s)PCGS MS65FS nickel and didn't win. WC was outbid
by about $25. One of the underbidders had bid $1500. Was this $1500 bid meaningless? Today if
another '70(s)PCGS MS65FS nickel appeared on Ebay, would a $1500 or a $2000 bid be meaningless?// Late
last year one of the bd members put up one of those #1-#100 PCGS NY WTC Quarters on Ebay. He
posted that the reserve was $550. Some of the bd members were anxious to push the price up
to almost $500. The reserve ended up not being met. Did that mean that there were about a
half dozen or so people ready to buy one of these WTC quarters at over $400? Probably not.//
What if a 1926(s) PCGS MS65 Buffalo nickel was started on Ebay at $1 with a reserve. What if this
particular seller was known for setting high reserve prices and the coin ended the auction period
with a high bid of only $150.00 (reserve not met.) Would this $150.00 bid for this '26(s) PCGS MS65
nickel taint the marketplace?
Goose: I believe you might be missing something. But first, I am not commenting here on other bidders in this auction; it wouldn't be appropriate. But, let's look at dbldie55's bid. When it was placed, he had NO IDEA he wouldn't be hitting the reserve-right? Let's say he did hit the reserve with his bid placed "to have fun"-then what? Yes, I heard he would have had to honor it, especially because he heard that the "expert" (me?) said it was worth closer to $10,000. So then what? Would he have sold it to me, the underbidder!!
I have never minded stepping up and paying strong money for great modern coins, but to be chasing dbldie55 of all people-geez, I've spent the past year addressing his challenges that coins such as this $10,000 modern Jefferson are a joke, tulips, etc. This is rediculous and the suggestion that dbldie55 was really just trying to be a "modern coin dealer" is even more absurb!! And, think about it, everything dbldie55 has said for the past year about the risks of buying moderns, but for a $1000 profit he would jump right in and flip one to a collector!!!!! COME ON!! All you guys jumping to dbldie55's defense remind me of the defense team in one of those famous murder trials a couple years ago
Listen, dbldie55, just come out and say that your bid in that auction was probably not well thought out when placed. I'd be fine with that
The photo on the auction page isn't working for me.
And I just noticed the item description says this is a "select choice gem brilliant uncirculated" piece. I guess that covers all bases!
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Remember, if my goal was to "run you up" as you have stated, I would have placed bids in each increment until I found your high bid. Since you had not met the reserve, I would be safe until I got close, unless the reserve is in a very odd amount. That was not my plan.
During a murder trial, it is assumed that someone did something wrong. I did nothing wrong. Please show me the Ebay rule that states you cannot bid on an item with a reserve. If the reserve was met, and I won, and did not honor the bid, I would be in the wrong, but certainly not by what I did. If someone "makes a deal" outside of Ebay, then they are doing something against the rules, but I did not.
What kind of lawyer were you again?
dbldie55: That it was
Forget the "legal" stuff (i.e. "my bid was legal")- just please tell us why you were bidding $8000+ on a modern Jefferson nickel in the firstplace that books at around $5 in gem grade? Your position on modern coins is well documented on these boards. The notion that you were buying this coin to flip to a collector for $9,000 or $10,000 is entirely foreign to my understanding of your firm and constant position on these modern coins (i.e. the "tulips", future price crash, unhappy modern collectors, etc-does all this go away if one can "flip" a modern coin to a collector for a grand profit)
Honestly, have you ever bought a Jefferson nickel in your life for more than say $300? This may sound "argumentative, but it really isn't. My post asked a simple question which never really was answered logically: Why did you just bid more than $8,000 on a Jefferson Nickel? I believe you basically said you saw an opportunity to make a grand or two flipping the coin as the sole purpose-right? OK, I'll "buy that" and glad to have you aboard as the newest modern coin dealer on the boards not afraid to pay close to "5 figures" for a MS Jefferson nickel that bids at around $5 in gem grade! But, then don't be hypocritical and come on like "Mother Theresa" against those modern sellers that routinely offer this stuff out either-right? If it's OK for a "classic" guy like yourself to pay close to "five figures" for a modern coin (which in the undergrade is worth around a couple hundred dollars) for the opportunity to flip it to a collector for a "grand or two" profit, then, baby, you've "crossed the line" and welcome to the wacky world of modern coins!!
I look forward to hearing you "stand up" for your newly found market on our boards.
Again, congratulations on the switch, and Welcome.
Also, I did not bid $8,000. We are approching 70 comments about nothing. What if it was me that bid $12,500 on the PR70 95W eagle. Would it matter? It did not sell either. I felt "safe" with my bid. If I would have known that it would upset you so much I may not have done it (but it may have encouraged me to do it as well)
This whole thread is moot as the reserve was not met by my bid (or yours). My reasons behind it are irrelevant, and I will continue to bid on reserve auctions I want to watch. I don't look at my watch list, I do look at my bids list. (they are not in the same place)
Your gift is still in California. Hope Dale goes to Long Beach to retrieve it. Looking forward to receiving it.
Bottom line: I placed a bid that I was very confident would not meet the reserve so that I could watch this auction. That is the entire reason behind my bid. The thought that I may be "running up" your bid never entered my mind. I hind sight, it turns out that my bid was very safe from reaching the reserve. Why are you so upset? This is the question I have. Perhaps I should start another thread?
I don't think I have ever said that these people (modern collectors) would be unhappy, I know that I have never used the Tulip comparison. I have used the fact that this same scenario happened to Classics in the '80s and people may want to consider that. A coin like this may be immune (some are, many are not). But paying David Hall $195 for a coin that is sold elsewhere for $45 (another thread on the US board) makes just paying to receive something crazy. Wondercoin is now selling MS68 state quarters for $135 (what was the high amount paid for this coin?), with multiples to go around. Certainly not for every state quarter, but for some.
But hey, I am looking at a coin with a "pop" of 25! Certainly not rare by many people's standards, except the "pop" is the number known, not the number certified in a given grade!
Some people just like to live in secret (give me a bid, and I will accept or deny), and do not like that their potential high bid was revealed (but not by me, but someone else that appears immune from this thread).
Happy trails.
Like I have said in the past. Collect what you like, and like what you collect. ( I have a collection of whiskey bottles among other things )
Edited because I cannot spell ( I am a numbers person, which is why I basically knew the reserve would not be met with my bid )
> on "a 'secondary' watch list". I would think this type of action would
> taint the "pure marketplace", skewing the supply/demand balance, and
> therefore affect prices, again, speaking in generalities.
It doesn't skew the supply/demand balance because everyone should know
that what sells for $12K to one person, would draw interest from
more people at $10K and still more at $8K.
The only thing this should do is possibly lead people to believe that
there is a large, stable market for an item moderately below its
market price. A buyer could decide that the item couldn't fall in
value too much because they think there are plenty of people willing
to buy the item for a 20% discount. But I don't think people bid on
expensive "modern" coins because they think that they shouldn't fall
in value too much.
The idea that people will bid up an item to an appropriate (market)
level is the proof that the market is efficient. If I see a $400 Ike
that is only bid up to $200, it's likely I'll bid on it. There's
free money on the table. Why would I let someone else have it?
Again that's the definition of an efficient market.
> I only bid $8,000, but I knew it was below the reserve (at least by your comments I figured it was).
WC, It sounds like DD thought his bid was safe based on info you
gave him. Was this discussed in a thread before he bid? If so I'm
guessing you'll keep you estimates of worth to yourself until the
action is over next time.
So, WC wanted to know why DD bid a lot of money on something he isn't
known to be interested in. DD said he wanted to track the item.
The question has been asked and answered. I think beyond this it's just
bickering.
-Keith H
Woo-Hoo!
Even the bickering is fun.
You go guys!
Kyle
It is NONE of your ** BUSINESS why he or any other person bids on an auction.If someone ever has a problem with one of my bids,I will tell them to F themselves. ok ?
Back to TV,
Larry
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
Ok, the heat in the kitchen is moving up...
Back to tv.....
Aren't we all friends here?
Ask me why I bid on ANYTHING, and I wouldn't say F-U to ANYBODY here, and that's for sure.
I think it's fair to ask a question... It IS just a question.
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
Remember, even if the reserve was met (which it was not), and the winner had to buy the coin (which they did not), and I was to bid you up to your max just to be a pain (something you would call less than honorable), it would still be doing nothing WRONG!
Perhaps we should contact Ebay and have them change the rules that you have to only bid on things you absolutely want (even if you bid an amount that will not buy it). And anytime you bid on something, and do not make a serious attempt to win the item it will count as a strike against you. Three strikes and you get suspended.
If he met reserve he would have had to buy the coin, if not then he's free of any obligation to buy, much less to explain himself. If some one here feels manipulated, well it certainly wouldn't be the first time activity for some of these coins has been just a little unusual.
the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
Join the NRA and protect YOUR right to keep and bear arms
To protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart. Theodore Roosevelt
[L]http://www.ourfallensoldier.com/ThompsonMichaelE_MemorialPage.html[L]
My, my. Wasn't it only a question? Oh, well.
There's no kitchen in the "other" bored, I mean, board.
Wondercoin.
Now that’s an interesting contrast in topics to reflect upon, isn’t it? I hate to see records broken, but ...
PS. I'm not sure if the 911 thread counts, but it was 364 posts, I think. But that was on the coin forum and the "old" board. I can't look it up anymore, I guess.
My Jefferson Full Step Variety Set (1938 - Current)
My Jefferson Proof Variety Set (1938 - Current)
the coin sold privately for well over $10,000