What are 1959 and 1957 PCGS MS66 type B reverse quarters worth?
fivecents
Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have two 1959 and one 1957 PCGS MS66 unmarked on the PCGS label type B quarters with nice luster and toning. Are these worth enough for me to pay to have PCGS add the type B variety to the label?
0
Comments
-Paul
IMO, the label is just asthetics.
Besides, the Type B's are required in any of the Washington sets.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I don't know about the 1959, but I've seen NGC MS66 1957's going for about $50 on eBay. >>
Paul, wouldn't that be for the non type B reverse. I need to know the value of the PCGS MS66 type B reverse.
Good info Lee...thanks!
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
but nowhere on the NGC slab is it so attributed.
I have YET to find a Type B attributed as such in ANY NGC slab.
There are several Type B in 66 & 67 holders, I'm sure
however, NOT MANY are attributed as such - FS-901.
I suspect that will soon change when owners begin
learning they have some top pops on their hands!
Here's why (at PCGS)! Besides the regular cost to have
the coin graded there is an additional fee of $20 per coin
for the FS-901 attribution.
Check PCGS Population Reports - you'll find the ones so attributed!
Check NGC Census and you will find no mention of Type B - anyhwere!
That is, unless it has changed very recently, since last I looked!
If you have access to PCGS Population you'll soon find that some of these are extremely low pop.
The tougher ones to find are the 56, 58, 61, 62 & 64.
Check pops on these!
I think you'll be surprised by what you see.
I think the price depends on the quality of toning on the 1957's becuase I have pulled quite a few out of Original mint sets so that date does not appear to be scarce. Being in a PCGS holder unmarked probably won't add much value over a NGC unmarked holder except for the koolaid drinkers.....but I would imagine Type B's so designated on a PCGS could add $10 to the final price
Do you have pictures of the toning?
ok here are some links to my sales....and no I have nothing currently for sale on ebay so no spamming here
1957 WASHINGTON QUARTER NGC MS66 RAINBOW TONED TYPE B
1957 Washington Quarter NGC MS66 TYPE B RAINBOW TONED #2
sorry....couldn't go back far enough in the history to get to the rest or the MS67......
I first heard of the Type "B" reverses on this forum about a year ago and have been cherry picking them ever since, these coins are just starting to get some serious looks, but only the better BU examples IMO,
These in a nice grade of 65 or better across the board (56-64) are going to be a lot tougher to cherry soon...$$$......IMO.
Its a type B reverse- it will be reslabbed in a PCGS holder, with designation.....
I want a top pop coin, and I want it Now (think the song) I want it NOW..........
<< <i>Speaking of type B's, can anyone confirm that 1952 was a possible year???? 1952 Type B >>
Circulated proof?
I suspect a circulated proof. Years ago I bought a 1952 type B well circulated quarter. It was a circulated proof. As a matter of fact it turned out to be a class III doubled die which are only known in proof for Philadelphia.
I don't know much about pricing for "B's", but it is refreshing to see so much posting on this thread.
<< <i>Oh, and to answer the OP's question ... PCGS shows the 63 (the most common) at $85 in PCGS 65. >>
I think the price you quoted was on the DDO and not the Type B Boom as my reference shows a value of $0.00.
Year Designation Grade PriceGuide
1957 Type B Rev FS-901 MS65 $45.00
1958 Type B Rev FS-901 MS64 $0.00
1959 Type B Rev FS-901 MS64 $45.00
1960 Type B Rev FS-901 MS64 $45.00
1961 Type B Rev FS-901 MS65 $8.00
1962 Type B Rev FS-901 MS64 $0.00
1963 DDO FS-101 (FS-023) MS65 $85.00
1963 Type B Rev FS-901 MS64 $0.00
1964 Type B Rev FS-901 MS64 $75.00
The price guide can only be updated (and then referenced) when these actively trade either in major auctions, dealer to dealer transactions, or dealer to customer sales, otherwise the prices register as 0 dollars. However, given the right set of bidders, a Type B reverse can go for some serious money. Given the wrong set and/or an obviously low grade coin, and some do not even sell at a $12 BIN. A lot really depends upon the coin itself and any other attributions it may have such as grade and color.
As for population reports, these figures only represent those that collectors have submitted and had attributed. They DO NOT reflect anything more than that. I strongly suspect that submissions (and resulting populations) are low because submitting these to PCGS is simply not a CHEAP proposition. Personally, I have more 1958's (8) than any other year, so when Boom says 1958 is a tough year to find, I just kinda scratch my head because it wasn't that tough for me.
I do remember kryptonite's MS67 which sold for close to $175. Being an MS67 and having excellent color were big contirbuting factors. I have no doubt that the MS66 1957's he sold in the 60 dollar range were due to color and grade as well as being a Type B.
For now, the coin has a very limited audience. Specifically, those collectors that are actively seeking Type B's. The rest of the collecting world could care less because the coin is only recognized by PCGS, ANACS, and possibly ICG. PCGS attributes it solely because it's in the CPG and for no other reason!
It is also not PCGS registry required in the Complete Washington Variety Set (just yet!)
It also has not been widely publicized.
The net result for the above is that until more people actively seek these out AND actually have them graded/attributed AND ultimately sell them as such, it is difficult to nail down ANY numbers for this variety, be it pops or prices.
My attraction to this variety is closely linked to the 1972 Type 2 IKE in that this was also a "proof" reverse die which made it to the production floor. The Type 2 has enjoyed tremendous popularity due to relative scarcity and general knowledge about that scarcity. It also is not something that occured over an 8 year period and is not currently known in any year except 1972.
The Type B on the other hand, has a ways to go before anything conclusive could be stated about it. Perhaps if PCGS did not charge $20 per coin to have this attributed, more would show up. I currently have 26 which may never get graded because at $38 per coin ($18 economy + $20 attribution) and current auction pricing, I simply find it difficult to justify a $988 submission.
I'll continue to collect these as I'm sure many will. The higher the grade in my eyes, the better the price I'll pay.
The name is LEE!
I have a mini hoard of them
<< <i>I sold this 56 on ebay a couple months ago raw......it went for almost 150.00..........Link >>
But that one's a 1956 which is reported to be rare Eric. These have been showing up with more frequency so it's relative rarity will be known (as will all of these) within the next five years or so.
Anymore, I cannot really state the rarity of ANY modern copin simply because there are many out there which have simply not been looked at.
I also find it odd that the proof reverse die(s) for these coins showed up regularly for eight consecutive years! Thats a whole bunch of concurrent "mistakes" to occur! Perhaps the die's were proof rejects for whatever reason and instead of tossing them out, they simpky used them elsewhere?
Or, perhaps the Washington Quarter series needs more in depth investigation?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
Or, perhaps the Washington Quarter series needs more in depth investigation? >>
Indeed. There's a lot more out there that gets little or no attention. These coins
have been the workhorse of commerce for several generations yet rarely even get
a second glance.
It is as you say ... $85 - for a totally different error.
With a known population of 16 or so - single digit in PCGS 64 and a smaller
single digit in PCGS 65 - with NONE grading higher (YET - for 1961) ... only because
no one has yet to submit a known PCGS 66 and pay for the FS-901 attribution -
I'd say that $8 across the board is just an indicator that there
have not been enough sold or auctioned to arrive at a Value!
Till people spring for the $38 a coin (first making SURE the candidate coin MERITS the expense)
we can only go by what the public chooses to believe and is willing to pay!
This is a GREAT SERIES to study!
<<It also has not been widely publicized.>>
Fifty years ago there was a lot of discussion on these in Coin World's Collector's Clearinghouse by the late Jim Johnson, editor and the late Bill Edwards, Modern Variety Guild.. To my regret I ignored all of this good information. Silver still circulated. I could have had a ball. I find a well circulated silver B quite distinctive. A tad of tarnish collects in the high relief inner wing / field boundary. It appears to the eye as obviously different, high relief and outlined in black yet. Never mind the check points, these guys are obvious and jump out at you. I saw those back then. Still, I didn't pay attention. At that point, I didn't believe varieties existed. Other folk did though.
I find 1956 B's Unc very scarce. !956 B's circulated are much more common. (Perhaps people weren't saving them yet.) 1957's were the most common in circulation. There are many 1959's around due to mint sets. 1958 Philly (all varieties) was a very low mintage. I used to go to shows and the only Washington silver quarters a dealer would have had were the 1958's. Some of these would be B's. Because of this, I hesitate to call them scarce. Still I would not call them common.
By the way guys, 1956 - 1964 is a 9 year period, not 8. 1969 D - 1972 D is another 4 year period, so there are 13 years to collect.
How many of you have a complete set? either the 9 or 13?
IMHO, I think the mint had proof dies that weren't up to snuff and could not be used for proof production. So rather than throw them away,
they used them for regular production. Perhaps the clads are a different scenario since they seem to be so scarce.
Back then, the mind was adament in saying these varieties did not exist. The numismatic press was reluctant to contradict them.
Not too shabby for an approximate MS 63!
1956: 2
1957: 14
1958: 9
1959: 6
1960: 6
1961: 2
1962: 4
1963: 4
1964: 1
I guess it's a skewed listing, having not purchased others that I ran across but didn't deem them worth owning.
Lee - my history exactly, except I consider the multi-year thing to be a plus and my count is 13.
How about the BS proof artwork Franklin halves of 1958 and 1959? Do you save those? How about the 1959 class III doubled die? There is not that much of a challenge here, which may be why the 1956 proofs get all the attention. Bill Edwards documented quite a subset of die breaks in the proof artwork circs.
1956 (not so obvious as the latter dates & easily overlooked)
1964 (extremely difficult to find in higher MS grades)
1962 & 1961 - (ditto)
& pretty much, in THIS order too!
Bronze - I am curious, what clad dates have you seen? I am especially interested in 1971 - 1972. I am aware of only a possible 5 1971 D B's
and of 4 1972 D B's. All the 1971's have the same die gouge.
Lee - What a set a 1972 T2 $1 and a 1972 D B 25 cents make! Both proof artwork and the same year! Only 2 people that I know of suceeded at this. But there could be (and probably is) a whole world I don't know about.
<< <i><<My attraction to this variety is closely linked to the 1972 Type 2 IKE in that this was also a "proof" reverse die which made it to the production floor. The Type 2 has enjoyed tremendous popularity due to relative scarcity and general knowledge about that scarcity. It also is not something that occured over an 8 year period and is not currently known in any year except 1972.>>
Lee - my history exactly, except I consider the multi-year thing to be a plus and my count is 13.
How about the BS proof artwork Franklin halves of 1958 and 1959? Do you save those? How about the 1959 class III doubled die? There is not that much of a challenge here, which may be why the 1956 proofs get all the attention. Bill Edwards documented quite a subset of die breaks in the proof artwork circs. >>
Herb, I am but a newbie (who can't count to 9) with a limited attention span. I'm afraid that if I threw Franklin's into the search mix that I would have to give some other subconcious process up to make room for the new one as this old dog can only handle a couple of things at a time before he starts fumbling around.
Sooooo....... where do I get info on these Franklins?
The name is LEE!
I too think 64's are as scarce as 56's, with 61's right behind them. I have found that 60 and even 62 are more abundant, but very few in high UNC grades. I can almost trip over 57's, and have passed on a bunch of these in recent months.
1963 followed by 1962! Most of those that show up on eBay are proofs. Bith of those dates proved a little difficult to obtain.
Not impossible, just difficult.
The name is LEE!
absolute Best I have ever seen or had, sitting in my Dansco!
Without doubt, when I have them graded they will grade very nicely
but the clincher is the toning is absolutely GORGEOUS!
The way the toning just lays atop total, unbroken LUSTER is breathtakingly beautiful!
I could easily believe that. Mint sets can be a very interesting in this regard. Consider 1959. In my limited experience all 1959 mint sets
have a type B Philadelphia quarter and a type II (proof artwork) Philly half. Does this not show a deliberate move by the mint for this one year? I once met a dealer that had multi-rolls of 1959 Philly halves that he said were cut from mint sets. Most were type II as would be expected but there were a few type I and class III doubled die mixed in.
1960 mint sets may have a type B in them. I have no hard figures but am guessing that it is about a 50-50 situation.
The reverse of most 1968 S proof quarters are of the latest clad design modified for proof production much as the silver type B's were modified from type A. I call these type M (M for modified. I started off with a logical sequence A, B, C then found I had to fill in the gaps with new discoveries.) Late in 1968 the mint reverted to type B for proofs and then these M's started showing up on a minority of circulation strikes in 1969 (Denver) and 1970 (both mints).
Again in 1970 the vast majority of mint sets used the special artwork for the Denver quarter. There are exceptions where the regular quarter was used and where class III doubled dies were used. We thus have 3 different already, so why not throw in that last fourth variety - type B?