“The Blake Matte Proof Lincoln Diagnostic Collection”
Grasshopper
Posts: 174
To my Numismatic Colleagues:
Well, it looks like Matte Proof Lincoln Cents are in my blood! I am planning to retire the William Blake Memorial Collection (WBMC) in the next few days, and after some serious thought, I have decided to build a new MPL collection … a new MPL collection that will have a different focus then the WBMC. Aside from an honorarium to my father, one minor goal of the WBMC was to explain to other collectors my thinking that an MPL does not necessarily have to be designated a full “red” to be considered extremely rare and be quite valuable. I hope that I was able to make strides in that direction through my father’s honorarium collection. Certainly, I surprised myself as to the potential of the series, and the passion that this particular series draws out of collectors. It was, and is, very exciting to me. Clearly, I am not ready to retire from the MPL series, and I have yet to find a series that strike me as so challenging and exciting. And on top of that, everyone involved in collecting the MPL seems to feel the same way!
So with that in mind, my goal with this new collection is somewhat different: I would like to (at a slower pace and not breakneck speed) assemble a full collection of MPLs that have outstanding Matte Proof Lincoln identification diagnostics. The set is intended to be primarily educational in nature, and will hopefully continue the intelligent discussion as to what attributes are likely to be seen in deciding whether a particular specimen is a MPL, the different dies states, elements of chemistry and color, etc. New diagnostic elements are likely to be found and discussed. Grade and/or color are not necessarily paramount in my decision as to which coins will be appropriate and properly fit with the collection, however, I do suspect, after my first collecting experience, that the high grade red coins may ‘show’ the diagnostics more readily then the other color designations (but that is just speculation, and I intend to explore that assumption). The particular diagnostic element aspects that I’m looking for will vary for each date in the series, but will include known die markers, striations, rims, and I’d like to find the most pronounced diagnostics that are available for each given date (this includes diagnostics that may or may not be recognized in the known texts at this time). Of course, I do intend to consult and share what I find or confirm with the recognized experts in the field, and I do not need to name them, as the list is extensive. Ideally, I would like to have our MPL community as a whole contribute their knowledge, as we always have. The coins I’ve chosen to start with in this collection (1-3 coins at this point in time) will display pronounced indentifying diagnostics for their respective dates, and I do plan on using enlarged photographs when possible to educate myself and others. We may actually find some new diagnostic markers!
As I see that Stewart Blay did an amazing job in lobbying PCGS through BJ Searles on the inclusion of “colorless” IHC collections on the Registry, I was hoping that we may be able to do something similar with our beloved MPL series.
In the end, I think that the numismatic community will benefit from this educational idea, and of course, the secrets that the MPL series hold will be further revealed, and most likely further exemplified in the values of the coins in the series. I think that the MPL series is the perfect candidate for this approach, because the series is limited in number to only nine, and this is the only example of copper matte proof coinage that have ever been minted in the United States, to my knowledge.
For the record, I collected the WBMC with the primary goal of honoring my father, and never really expected to make any money. But with the series prices exploding, I would like to take some of the rewards of my first collection, and place back into a series that I am passionate about, and has the potential to go from a publically unknown series, to the status of a publically-recognized bona fide rarity series that we all now know the MPLs truly are.
All public comments welcome and anticipated, and I am curious: what does the MPL community think of the idea?
Sincerely
Duane
Well, it looks like Matte Proof Lincoln Cents are in my blood! I am planning to retire the William Blake Memorial Collection (WBMC) in the next few days, and after some serious thought, I have decided to build a new MPL collection … a new MPL collection that will have a different focus then the WBMC. Aside from an honorarium to my father, one minor goal of the WBMC was to explain to other collectors my thinking that an MPL does not necessarily have to be designated a full “red” to be considered extremely rare and be quite valuable. I hope that I was able to make strides in that direction through my father’s honorarium collection. Certainly, I surprised myself as to the potential of the series, and the passion that this particular series draws out of collectors. It was, and is, very exciting to me. Clearly, I am not ready to retire from the MPL series, and I have yet to find a series that strike me as so challenging and exciting. And on top of that, everyone involved in collecting the MPL seems to feel the same way!
So with that in mind, my goal with this new collection is somewhat different: I would like to (at a slower pace and not breakneck speed) assemble a full collection of MPLs that have outstanding Matte Proof Lincoln identification diagnostics. The set is intended to be primarily educational in nature, and will hopefully continue the intelligent discussion as to what attributes are likely to be seen in deciding whether a particular specimen is a MPL, the different dies states, elements of chemistry and color, etc. New diagnostic elements are likely to be found and discussed. Grade and/or color are not necessarily paramount in my decision as to which coins will be appropriate and properly fit with the collection, however, I do suspect, after my first collecting experience, that the high grade red coins may ‘show’ the diagnostics more readily then the other color designations (but that is just speculation, and I intend to explore that assumption). The particular diagnostic element aspects that I’m looking for will vary for each date in the series, but will include known die markers, striations, rims, and I’d like to find the most pronounced diagnostics that are available for each given date (this includes diagnostics that may or may not be recognized in the known texts at this time). Of course, I do intend to consult and share what I find or confirm with the recognized experts in the field, and I do not need to name them, as the list is extensive. Ideally, I would like to have our MPL community as a whole contribute their knowledge, as we always have. The coins I’ve chosen to start with in this collection (1-3 coins at this point in time) will display pronounced indentifying diagnostics for their respective dates, and I do plan on using enlarged photographs when possible to educate myself and others. We may actually find some new diagnostic markers!
As I see that Stewart Blay did an amazing job in lobbying PCGS through BJ Searles on the inclusion of “colorless” IHC collections on the Registry, I was hoping that we may be able to do something similar with our beloved MPL series.
In the end, I think that the numismatic community will benefit from this educational idea, and of course, the secrets that the MPL series hold will be further revealed, and most likely further exemplified in the values of the coins in the series. I think that the MPL series is the perfect candidate for this approach, because the series is limited in number to only nine, and this is the only example of copper matte proof coinage that have ever been minted in the United States, to my knowledge.
For the record, I collected the WBMC with the primary goal of honoring my father, and never really expected to make any money. But with the series prices exploding, I would like to take some of the rewards of my first collection, and place back into a series that I am passionate about, and has the potential to go from a publically unknown series, to the status of a publically-recognized bona fide rarity series that we all now know the MPLs truly are.
All public comments welcome and anticipated, and I am curious: what does the MPL community think of the idea?
Sincerely
Duane
0
Comments
Diagnostics are a funny thing. In my opinion, the dies were made ready for the press by sandblasting, and then may have removed up to three times during the coining run, and 'worked ' on. At most, I think this consisted of no more than a good cleaning with a rag and some solvent. A chance piece of grit, lodged in cavity (or on the rag) made scratches here and there. A good buffing on the edge caused those streak lines near the rim. A chance die crack...on occasion.
Ive seen diagnostics which aren't in the pamphlet, for instance, the upper left wheat ear to the letter E has several parallel die scratches in that field area. Ive seen this same feature on several registry set photos. Yet, it is not mentioned as a 1916 diagnostic. Maybe its a business strike master hub issue....
Again, high quality digital photography is a Godsend for research and collecting MPL's. Those black and white photos in the booklet show you how easy it can be to see some of the diagnostics but yet on our color digital photos they blend in and fade out.... maybe shoot diagnostics in B&W mode?
Wow Guy you are gonna be hosing money back into the MPL pipeline faster than it can handle!
Have Fun!!
Happy reading. Now I just have to find the best coins for the photographer, and see what our group has at hand that can be valuable.
Duane
Last fall Paul (commoncents05) and others posted threads on each of the MPL's describing the known diagnostics for each.Here is the thread on the 1909VDB MPL.
It would be very informative to the community if these threads were posted again here ON THIS SET REGISTRY forum where those who are interested in this subject can review it. Certainly, Duane can add to the information as he acquires it. JMHO. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
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Ive seen diagnostics which aren't in the pamphlet, for instance, the upper left wheat ear to the letter E has several parallel die scratches in that field area. Ive seen this same feature on several registry set photos. Yet, it is not mentioned as a 1916 diagnostic. Maybe its a business strike master hub issue....
>>
I had noticed when I did the diagnostic thread for the 1911, there were at least 2 diagnostics (Maybe a couple more) that weren't listed in the pamphlet, but were consistent with other 1911's that I had either seen in hand or by images. Link to 1911 Diagnostics
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
this sounds very challenging moreso then (WBMC)
i know....very little ok (hehehe)...but i'd think at anytime these jewels can dry up like most before proclaim...you just couldn't find them
to persue these in limited acceptance...yup...sounds to me like a challenge and a 1/2
one that surely will hold a deep respect once achieved thou...best wishes...something tells me thou...with support of brian...this will happen quicker then i'd believe
Can you see any of the 1916 reverse diagnostics you speak of in this photo?
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
WS
I do not think it is a business strike diagnostic. My 1916 has strong die stiations running from the right of the "E" down at at a 6:00 angle towards the top end of the left wheat ear. I have not see this on business strikes I have analysed. I will ask either Brian (who have the photo and may get a close up), Bob Campbell or Matt to take the super close-ups. Matt, the '16 I'm looking at has much stronger lines displayed then the specimen you have put forth above.
Water sport, I do like that idea. I think that I will have to do alot of searching, but I do have a 1909 RB that I saved from the WBMC that is diagnostically unreal. Also, there are a number of coins that will be unavailable to me that would fit the criteria. Patience is the name of the game for this new collection, but that does not mean we cannot get some great photos and compare notes, which we may want to use for the Flynn book too (Kevin wants to compare differant die states and diagnostics, among other things).
Duane