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"Significant US Patterns"

RYKRYK Posts: 35,788 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I first noticed a section in the Red Book Significant US Patterns today. I was surprised, astonished, to see that the Red Book chose to include such a section, albeit a small one. As an advanced beginner in the pattern area, I was equally surprised to see what were the selections. Sure, some of the biggies are in there, but they also chose some coins that are rather pedestrian.

My preference would be to either have an objective criteria as to what patterns to include or delete patterns completely. The way that it is done now tends to leave the uninitiated with the notion that the patterns included are the important ones and the others are unimportant. I think that is not fair to those of us who collect the INSignificant US Patterns. image

What are your thoughts?

(If this has been discussed before, please direct me to the link and accept my most humble apologies for bringing it up again image ).
My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132

Comments

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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Significant US Patterns must be the ones that start at 6 figures image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,943 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As the person that made the selections of which patterns to include, I tend to like the selections. image

    However, calling them "Significant US Patterns" is misleading, for the reasons you state. I'll try to get that changed for next year.

    As for how the selections were made, the idea was to show a cross section of what exists, with a focus on pieces that have good stories or that are especially attractive. And, of course, the motive was to get people interested in patterns. Hopefully, it has been successful in that regard.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Options
    RYKRYK Posts: 35,788 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Significant US Patterns must be the ones that start at 6 figures image >>



    Actually, they are in all price ranges ($1500 and up).
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
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    Batman23Batman23 Posts: 4,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do not have any patterns as my deep pockets are empty. From what I have seen, there are enough patterns out there to fill its own book. I do like that the Red Book includes a small section of patterns just to show that coins exist that are different from the issued types. That being said I suppose that they could have titled the section as "Just a few nice US Patterns" just to make you happyimage
  • Options
    RYKRYK Posts: 35,788 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>As the person that made the selections of which patterns to include, I tend to like the selections. image

    However, calling them "Significant US Patterns" is misleading, for the reasons you state. I'll try to get that changed for next year.

    As for how the selections were made, the idea was to show a cross section of what exists, with a focus on pieces that have good stories or that are especially attractive. And, of course, the motive was to get people interested in patterns. Hopefully, it has been successful in that regard. >>



    A-ha! I suspected as much. image

    It is indeed an eclectic sampling, but I would agree that the title of the chapter is misleading. How about "Selected US Patterns" or "A Sampling of US Patterns"?

    My concern is that, as an example, the J-204 gets more action and interest than the very similar J-202 and J-206 just because it is now in the Red Book. The same might be said for other issues.

    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • Options
    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Significant US Patterns must be the ones that start at 6 figures image >>



    Actually, they are in all price ranges ($1500 and up). >>



    Wow then all my US Patterns are Significant ones! image
    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
  • Options
    RYKRYK Posts: 35,788 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Significant US Patterns must be the ones that start at 6 figures image >>



    Actually, they are in all price ranges ($1500 and up). >>



    Wow then all my US Patterns are Significant ones! image >>



    Unless you are buying damaged or moderately circulated, it's hard to do much damage in patterns for less than $1500. image
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • Options
    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,943 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow then all my US Patterns are Significant ones!

    Actually, they are.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Options
    RYKRYK Posts: 35,788 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • Options
    LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,292 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Any pioneer patterns?? image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • Options
    BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,957 ✭✭✭
    I think it is fine to be all over the place as long as they note the rarity or the ease of obtaining the example photographed.
  • Options
    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,943 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Any pioneer patterns?

    Not a bad idea, especially for issuers that did not strike gold. But it would probably be in the Pioneer section.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Options
    BarryBarry Posts: 10,100 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Wow then all my US Patterns are Significant ones!

    Actually, they are. >>


    Are they full-time patterns or part-time patterns?
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    DentuckDentuck Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭
    RYK makes some good recommendations for other headings for that section ("Selected" and "A Sampling of").

    Any other suggestions?


    ========
    Dennis Tucker, Publisher
    Whitman Publishing, LLC
    3101 Clairmont Road, Suite C
    Atlanta GA 30329
    Phone: 404-235-5348
    Fax: 678-891-4599
    dennis.tucker@whitmanbooks.com

    Read The Whitman Review online at www.whitmanbooks.com/Default.aspx?Page=55

  • Options
    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,943 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How about just "Patterns and Experimental Pieces"?

    The text already explains that this is not a complete catalog of patterns. And you can advertise the Judd book on the adjacent page...
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Options
    ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭


    << <i>How about just "Pattern and Experimental Pieces"? >>



    I like this idea.

    Coin Rarities Online
  • Options
    IGWTIGWT Posts: 4,975 ✭
    Can't think of a single good idea. image
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    DentuckDentuck Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭
    "A Diverse and Non-Comprehensive Smattering of Pattern Coins, Experimental and Trial Strikes, and Pièces de Caprice"

    [heading continued on next page]

  • Options
    SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The most significant US Pattern is the one I own. The only one I own. The one I looked for for over 10 years.
    In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
  • Options
    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,943 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The most significant US Pattern is the one I own. The only one I own. The one I looked for for over 10 years.

    Well, what was it???
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Options
    RYKRYK Posts: 35,788 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Can't think of a single good idea. image >>



    How 'bout "The Stuff Nobody Can Afford ..."?

    Yes, I'll delete this soon.

    image
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
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    NHSBaseballNHSBaseball Posts: 2,470 ✭


    << <i>image >>



    What a cool looking piece- I like that a lot.
    "College men from LSU- went in dumb, come out dumb too..."
    -Randy Newmanimage
  • Options
    LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,292 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "The Stuff Nobody Can Afford"

    That need a little "TM" by it. image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • Options
    RYKRYK Posts: 35,788 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>image >>



    What a cool looking piece- I like that a lot. >>



    Don't bother. It's on the Insignificant US Patterns list. image
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • Options
    RYKRYK Posts: 35,788 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>"The Stuff Nobody Can Afford"

    That need a little "TM" by it. image >>



    The Stuff Nobody Can Afford™

    Done! image
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • Options
    eCoinquesteCoinquest Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭
    How 'bout "The Stuff Nobody Can Afford™ ..."?



    Like thatimage

    I like that trick.
  • Options
    eCoinquesteCoinquest Posts: 1,485 ✭✭✭
    You type faster than me.image
  • Options
    IGWTIGWT Posts: 4,975 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>"The Stuff Nobody Can Afford"

    That need a little "TM" by it. image >>



    The Stuff Nobody Can Afford™

    Done! image >>



    Brilliant!
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    StellaStella Posts: 689 ✭✭✭✭
    Don't worry, RYK. Most of the patterns that I have owned have been "Insignificant." image
    Coin collector since childhood and New York Numismatist at Heritage Auctions.
  • Options
    DentuckDentuck Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭
    If you're interested in U.S. patterns: the next edition of Judd will be in full color.

  • Options
    SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My pattern is insignificant to the Redbook too. But it has multiple attractions to me. Large size, old and borrowed design emblematic of a by then obsolete coinage, and a proposed non PM coin.
    In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
  • Options
    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,943 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My pattern is insignificant to the Redbook too. But it has multiple attractions to me. Large size, old and borrowed design emblematic of a by then obsolete coinage, and a proposed non PM coin.

    Ah, an 1868 Large Cent! Good one coin pattern collection!
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Options
    MarkMark Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Andy:

    The way Red Book typically works to boost demand for listed items, the best title for the next edition might be "Patterns that recently rose the most in price"
    Mark


  • Options
    QuarternutQuarternut Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If you're interested in U.S. patterns: the next edition of Judd will be in full color. >>



    Color would be nice, but how can that be accomplished for some of the esoteric items without new pictures being taken? Does anyone know who owns some of these items?

    I also hope that a lot of the listings will be changed, as I see many problems that need to be corrected, especially with the early federal (pre 1836) period.

    QN

    Go to Early United States Coins - to order the New "Early United States Half Dollar Vol. 1 / 1794-1807" book or the 1st new Bust Quarter book!

  • Options
    CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,614 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>My pattern is insignificant to the Redbook too. But it has multiple attractions to me. Large size, old and borrowed design emblematic of a by then obsolete coinage, and a proposed non PM coin.

    Ah, an 1868 Large Cent! Good one coin pattern collection! >>



    I was reading an old QDB fixed price list and he was pumping up this coin like it was the 1913 nickel. That would seem presumptuous today, but fifty years ago 1913s weren't selling for seven figures.
    Newman Numismatic Portal, www.NewmanPortal.org
  • Options
    RYKRYK Posts: 35,788 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>My pattern is insignificant to the Redbook too. But it has multiple attractions to me. Large size, old and borrowed design emblematic of a by then obsolete coinage, and a proposed non PM coin.

    Ah, an 1868 Large Cent! Good one coin pattern collection! >>



    It's in the Red Book chapter on "Significant US Patterns". image

    I was reading an old QDB fixed price list and he was pumping up this coin like it was the 1913 nickel.

    There is also a chapter on it in More Adventures in Rare Coins.
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132

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