2008 AL Cy Young-

Morgoth

I think Roy Halladay would be my choice. Lee has a better ERA and they are a wash on WHIP. Halladay has more Ks, Complete games and shutouts and IP. He also has a sub 3 era like Lee. He is also only 2 Wins behind Lee and its conceivable he could tie or take the lead in that category with some luck.

I hope Rodriguez finishes no higher than 3rd.

Barndog

I think it's got to be Lee #1 as of today. A few more starts for each may make the difference. Interestingly, with a sub-3 ERA and a 16-2 record, nobody is talking about Matsuzaka.

BobaFett72

Honestly Dice K hasnt gone very deep into games and he walks a ton of batters. Im amazed his ERA isnt a run higher. He is basically pitching 5 2/3 innings per start which doesnt impress me. He's only gone 7 innings or more like 6 times all season. He has as many walks this year as all of last year. I really think he has had some amazing luck this year; i watch a LOT of sox games on NESN, I am truly stunned at the jams he gets into and out of whether through good defense or ineffectual hitting lol.

DaBeef

Lee...Look at the teams record, got to give it to him.

Morgoth

Um the Indians are only like 5 games under and the Blue Jays are only 4 games over, not that huge of a difference. Were not talking like Lee is pitching on the 1972 Phillies and he is pulling a Steve Carlton.

I agree 100% about Matsuzaka, he is having a blessed season to be able to walk as many and go so few innings and have such a lopsided win/loss record which shows why wins are overrated.

I think the complete games, Ks and shutouts weigh heavily in Halladay's favor for being more valuable to his team.

ctsoxfan

I'd vote for Halladay. I agree that Dice-K isn't really in the running here, his gaudy stats notwithstanding. I watch almost all of his games too, and many of his wins are not exactly smooth sailing. I think he'll get a few votes, but Halladay or Lee are the choices.

Morgoth

I just hope it isn't Rodriguez, if he breaks that stupid record he will get hyped up the wazu

80sToyguy

I agree, PLEASE don't give it to the closer, very over-rated.
Roy Halladay is the BEST pitcher in the AL right now. Even if Lee wins 22 or 23 and Halladay only wins 19 or 20, in 90% of every other category he'll be better than Lee, I am very hopeful the voters will do the right thing and give him his second.
Jay

alnavman

How can you pick someone with 2 less wins and 7 more losses as the Cy Young winner??? Agreed that Halladay is a great pitcher but he's lost 7 more games than Lee. And there have been at least four other games I can recall that the Indian studs in the bullpen blew games Lee should have won. Lee has kept the Indians in just about every game he's pitched. Now unless you can tell me that Halladay's losses were all 2-1 or 3-2 games then I have to go with Lee.

Morgoth

Wins and losses are bad ways to judge pitchers. Like you said bullpens come into play for pitchers that can't go the full 9. That is why Halladay is a better pitcher this year to me. He has been able to pitch more complete games and innings than Lee therefore giving his team better innings overall more of the time.

Halladay averages almost 7 and 2/3 innings a start (backing out his one relief appearance) while Lee averages just over 7 innings. Halladay has also thrown 26 more innings than Lee this year or about 3 starts worth. Halladay really saves his bullpen throughout the year and also allows the team to not have to use the 5th starter as often. He can pitch on short rest.

Looking at Lee's and Halladay's record just going by quality starts their records just as easily could have been up to this point.

Lee- 20-5
Halladay- 20-8

As you can see Lee really is only 1 win behind while Halladay is 3 based on the amount of quality starts they had. That shows that either the bullpen blew more of Halladay's games or he just got unlucky and had no run run support. Also it shows that Lee has 3 games that were not quality starts that either ended in wins or no decisions while Halladay would actually have less loses on the season.

Coupled with the fact that Halladay has the advantage in almost every other statistic and neither are on playoff teams I hope he wins.

Lee has had the press advantage for most of the season and if his Win/Loss percentage remains this high I don't think he can lose however.

edmundfitzgerald

Roy Halladay is the best pitcher in the AL, but Lee has had a fantastic season. Dice-K doesn't deserve it.

Morgoth

Really if Lee or Halladay wins it they both are deserving. If Rodriguez or Dice K wins then something is wrong.

DaBeef

Discussion over after another Lee shutout.

BobaFett72

woohoo!
great start, should help my fantasy squad out!

Morgoth

Maybe it's over, still alot of BB to play. Halladay could pitch another shut out as well he has pitched as many as Lee has this year. If Halladay threw his two shutouts in Sept instead of May would he be the front runner now? Both are deserving and if Lee keeps it up like that he will win but Halladay still has a shot.

gosteelers

<< <i>I just hope it isn't Rodriguez, if he breaks that stupid record he will get hyped up the wazu >>



Where would the Mets be right now if they had Rodriguez? Relievers are valuable, too.

Barndog

<< <i>

<< <i>I just hope it isn't Rodriguez, if he breaks that stupid record he will get hyped up the wazu >>



Where would the Mets be right now if they had Rodriguez? Relievers are valuable, too. >>



can't get any better than first

BobaFett72

a starting pitcher is far more valuable than a one inning specialist.

Morgoth

Saves and holds are just invented stats with no real meaning to give agents bullet points for the power point presentations on why Bobby Howry is worth 5 mil a season.

Basically your saying the 9th inning is worth more than 1-8. To me you can easily lose just as many games in innings 1-8 as you can in inning 9.

gosteelers

How many of Rodriguez's 50 games saved would have been blown by a 'crappy' closer? 8-10, at least? Doesn't really apply this year because they have such a big lead, I'm just saying the Mets would have sewn up the division already if they had someone like Rodriguez, thus the 'valuable' nature of his job comes into play.

Morgoth

That value pales into comparison to a starting pitcher who put you into the position to get that "save".

WinPitcher

If a closer was not valuable teams would not want/need one.

With that said, I don't think a closer should win the MVP or Cy Young either but it has happened.

(And will happen again)

You just can't completely discount what they do. With the pitch counts they use today

makes most starters last into the 6th inning the bullpen is as important as any other part

of the team.

Tony LaRussa has said that the last 3 outs of a game are the hardest to get.

Lee at 20 and 2 is having an outstanding year.


He may win 25 games this yr!


Steve

Morgoth

I am not discounting just saying it isn't as valuable and if there has been outstanding efforts by starters they should get first shot at the CY. If it was pretty mediocre year for starters (no sub 3 ERA/20 game winners IE numbers most voters view as great) I could see Rodriguez getting the CY this year. Lee and Halladay are having awesome years though so he should finish no higher than 3rd.

Morgoth

Alot of teams have used their "valuable" closers as trade bait as they feel they are much easier to replace than starters. Oakland has pioneered this tactic and I am surprised that they didn't deal Street this year.

TheVon

Right now, I think Lee has the edge because 20-2 just looks cool.

But Halladay has had some tough luck losses. In his 9 losses, Halladay has a 3.91 ERA and a 1.32 WHIP (not great, but not bad either, especially for losses). Also, in these 9 games, Halladay only got a total of 15 runs of support and apparently didn't have very good defense behind him since 7 of his 35 runs in his losses were unearned. I also think that it is impressive that his #2-4 losses were all complete games.

The 9 losses were, by and large, against tough opponents as well:
Loss 1: 3ER vs NYY with Wang pitching
Loss 2: A Complete Game, 4 ER outing vs Texas
Loss 3: Complete Game, 5 ER vs Tampa
Loss 4: Complete Game, 1 ER vs Red Sox (Lester and Papelbon combined to 2-hit the Jays)
Loss 5: 4ER vs. Indians with CC Sabathia on the hill
Loss 6: 6 Runs, only 2 ER vs the Cubs
Loss 7: 5ER vs Tampa again (outdueled by Garza who pitched 7 2/3 scoreless
Loss 8: 3ER vs Tampa yet again (another Garza gem- 9 IP, Zero runs)
Loss 9: 4 Runs, only 1 ER vs the Indians and a post all-star resurgent Paul Byrd Complete Game Effort.

WinPitcher

I too think it is Lee, however Mussina may get a few votes too.

Steve

Barndog

<< <i>I too think it is Lee, however Mussina may get a few votes too.

Steve >>



I would hope that Mussina would at least get a few 3rd place votes as recognition for his amazing turnaround season

Barndog

<< <i>

<< <i>I too think it is Lee, however Mussina may get a few votes too.

Steve >>



I would hope that Mussina would at least get a few 3rd place votes as recognition for his amazing turnaround season >>



of course, he's on the Yankees, so he sucks

TheVon

Well, Halladay got his 20th win yesterday and it was his 9th complete game of the season. It seems like it's been a pretty quiet 20-win season for him without a lot of fanfare. I still don't think it's enough to overtake Lee by any means, but I have to tip my cap to him for having a great year. 2008 looks like Halladay's 2nd best season of his career after his 2003 Cy Young season.

Edited to add:
It looks like Halladay will finish 2nd in wins, 1st in complete games, tied for 1st with a bunch of guys in shutouts, 1st in innings pitched, 3rd in Ks, 2nd in ERA, 1st in WHIP, and 5th in BAA.

80sToyguy

Can't argue the numbers, best pitcher in the AL this year but due to his team helping him out more (and playing against far weaker competition in the Central), Cliff Lee has it wrapped up (sadly).
Just another note about Halladay. The Yankees with a sweep this weekend will finish with 90 wins--one hell of a year eh? Roy Halladay was 5-1 against them this year.
Congrats to the Doc on one hell of a year!
Jay