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Chinese cash i.d.?

tbirde56tbirde56 Posts: 2,161
in World & Ancient Coins Forum
Any ideas?

imageimage
Brad Swain

World Coin & PM Collector
My Coin Info Pages <> My All Experts Profile
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Comments

  • DCHDCH Posts: 332
    Not listed in Hartill under Chia-ch'ing. Can you post the obverse?
  • tbirde56tbirde56 Posts: 2,161
    Added picture.
    Thanks for looking!
    Brad Swain

    World Coin & PM Collector
    My Coin Info Pages <> My All Experts Profile
    image
  • DCHDCH Posts: 332
    Emperor Sheng Zu, Kang Xi tong bao. Xuanhua garrison, Zhili. Rev: Si left, Xuan right.

    Calligraphy is very bad compared to catalog pictures. I'll do some more research after dinner, but I suspect a fake.
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    DCH, you are right that it comes from the reign of the Kangxi Emperor but I think are mistaken about the mint. I am still looking for it. It does not appear to be listed in Ding.
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    I am starting to think this is a fantasy piece. I notice that the rims are markedly uneven, suggesting to me that it may well be fake. Moreover, the right-hand character in the first image ("xi" meaning "west") should be a mint designation but I do not know of any mints with that designation. I am still looking though. I am going to consult with some bigger guns...
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    OK, I found something. Kangxi Tongbao with the "xi" (west) character are supposed to be among the rarest. This comes from Ding Fubao's general intro to Kangxi Tongbao. That would lead me to believe even more strongly that this is fake.

    I will keep reading...
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    OK, it looks like I am not the only one who thinks this is a fantasy piece: Kangxi Tongbao Fantasy
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    Well, I looked through another more exhaustive reference and this piece is not listed nor is there any mention of a mint designated by the character "xi." I would conclude from my admittedly superficial research that this piece is a fantasy, possibly even a modern reproduction of a known older fantasy.
  • ProofArtworkonCircsProofArtworkonCircs Posts: 4,223 ✭
    I am not a Chinese coin expert, but I find the reverse unusual in being apparently a mixture of Manchu and Chinese characters. Did that ever happen?
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    Yes, it did. There were quite a few issues during the Shunzhi and Kangxi reigns with that reverse configuration.
  • tbirde56tbirde56 Posts: 2,161
    Thanks very much to the resident experts!
    I had suspicions just seeing the type of font compared to genuine cash coins.
    What time period are we talking about with the Shunzhi and Kangxi Emperor?
    Brad Swain

    World Coin & PM Collector
    My Coin Info Pages <> My All Experts Profile
    image
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    Shunzhi period: 1642-1661
    Kangxi Period: 1661-1722

  • DCHDCH Posts: 332
    I believe your coin is imitating 22.142 in this picture.
    The note on this one refers to 22.84 which is the same reverse with a Shun Zhi obverse.
    The note for 22.84:
    "Variously attributed to Shanxi, Wu Sangui..., or else an invention for use as a gaming token."

    Is this a modern counterfeit of a contemporary fantasy/token?
    image
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    DCH, I think it is a copy of a contemporary fantasy/token.
  • tbirde56tbirde56 Posts: 2,161
    The coin's owner offers this info:
    'I found it using a metal detector at about 8” deep in a stream bed on the Oregon Coast by Neahkahnie Mountain. This area has a colorful history of pirate treasure, shipwrecks etc. dating from the 1500’s. Francis Drake is supposed to have made it up to that area.'

    I invite the owner to join this interesting thread with any questions or other comments!
    Brad Swain

    World Coin & PM Collector
    My Coin Info Pages <> My All Experts Profile
    image
  • ColinCMRColinCMR Posts: 1,482 ✭✭✭
    interesting story coming together here
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    I still think this coin is of recent manufacture. Of course, I don't know for sure but the color, uneven rim, and the rounded quality of the devices all suggest to me that it is a recent copy.
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    In comparing the coin to the text that DCH provided I can see that there are quite a few differences in calligraphy. Fishier and fishier, I say!
  • esskayesskay Posts: 4
    Sorry this has been so long but I went back to the same creek I found the chinese coin in and this is what I found - they were all within 60' or less of the site of the chinese coin. Any suggestions on who I could take these coins to in my area ( northern Oregon coast) to check their authenticity ?? Having a hard time putting the photos on - hope this works.
  • ozzysdad47ozzysdad47 Posts: 257
    What sumnom said.......... I didn't just come down with the rain, I was born in the morning , But, it wasn't this morning....Fishy? I think we have all handled freshly dug coin's...... Gimmie a break.........image
    " I just checked in , Just to see what condition, My condition was in." Kenny Rogers and the 1st. Edition......
  • DorkGirlDorkGirl Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭
    image

    What a strange mix of coins, very interesting.
    Becky
  • esskayesskay Posts: 4
    first off i have only been metal detecting about 4 months. i have a very good quality detector. second if your a coin expert i would think you being a professional would see that the majority of the coins that i have found are very well worn, and not worth much. third i have people who were there when i dug these coins. all i am asking is if somebody can refer me to somebody who actualy knows what they are looking at.
    p.s. what did your coins look like after you dug them out of the sand.
  • sumnomsumnom Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭
    Esskay,

    Of the four coins you posted, I can only identify three. The upper left looks like a British penny, probably very early 19th century. The upper right is a US cent, probably 1820s-1830s. I don't know what the lower left is. The lower right is French, maybe 10 centimes? I do not know what the pendant is.
  • DCHDCH Posts: 332
    I believe the lower left is Netherlands William III, 1849-1890
  • esskayesskay Posts: 4
    THANK YOU !
  • esskayesskay Posts: 4
    DCH and others - thanks for the help so far - here is my situation - near where I live there is a creek coming down to the beach - where it meets the sand there are also several large rocks. I dectected the chinese coin about 20' up the creek about 8' deep. At that point I had no idea what I had until later. Since then I have been back several times to the same creek. One time I dug the 4 coins shown in my last post and another time the pendant. Today I went back and dug another coin - see attached picture. I have dug no doubles - all coins seem to be from different countries but similar time period and all are very well worn. I have only cleaned the chinese coin ( ouch I now know but I'm new to this !! ) All the coins and the pendant have been dug in a 60' stretch. I believe that if all the other coins are real then the chinese coin could be reall too. Any ideas on who I could take the coin to in this area ( Pacific NW) for authentication ?? This area has a long history of trade between the Native Americans and various groups such as the Spanish, British and pirates etc. A local web site shows a jacket made out of chinese coins - the link to that is www.trailtribes.org - click on Clatsop and look under Maritime Fur Trade.
  • DCHDCH Posts: 332
    Your newest piece is a Buenos Aires 1 Decimo, from 1822-23.
  • determineddetermined Posts: 771 ✭✭✭


    << <i> ...This area has a long history of trade between the Native Americans and various groups such as the Spanish, British and pirates etc. A local web site shows a jacket made out of chinese coins - the link to that is www.trailtribes.org - click on Clatsop and look under Maritime Fur Trade. >>



    LINK

    Very interesting history esskay!
    I collect history in the form of coins.
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