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New labels indicate vintage cards keep coming
PSARich
Posts: 532 ✭✭✭
I have often wondered...when will grading companies run out of submissions of vintage cards to grade? Since the new PSA labels started a few months ago, they can serve as an indication of new submissions. Of the last 20 vintage PSA 9 baseball cards I have won on ebay (1959-1964), 17 of them have the new labels. This seems to indicate that the stream of older cards sent in to PSA is stiil strong. Of course there could be a few pop-outs and resubmissions or perhaps some crossovers, but most likely most of these mint examples are new to the world of grading. Any thoughts on where these cards keep coming from and will the steady stream of older card submissions continue?
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mosaic's Nolan Ryan Basic Topps registry set
mosaic's Big 3 Nolan Ryan Run Showcase
There's still many purists in the hobby.
<< <i>I know of a few people with substantial high-grade collections that are completely raw. And most of them will even buy graded cards and crack them out as soon as they get them in hand.
There's still many purists in the hobby. >>
I agree with ya, I know of at least three different fellow collectors who don't have a single graded card in their collection...but have some nice looking cards from the 50's and 60's...if only I could persuade them to part with them
I think aging collectors and the demand side of the equation will always entice more submissions to trickle into the hobby. There are still myriad advanced collections out there that are primarily high-grade raw [and potentially have been for decades]. From a supply/demand side of the equation, as demand increases and prices rise for certain issues, it is a huge reason for some to consider monetizing their collections. For example, as T-206 Honus Wagner prices have increased 300%, give or take, over the last three years, I would not be surprised to see at least four or five examples of this card hit the auction circuit in the next eighteen months.
As for post-war issues from 1959 to 1964, I think there is a much greater supply of these cards than many realize. I think a quick perusal of the PSA Set Registry shows the simple demand side of the equation as to how many people are collecting these issues.
Also -- from a pure timing perspective, I think most of what you see on Ebay is likely to be related to more recent submissions. Dealers are likely monetizing more recent submissions -- as there are not too many that often sit on inventories for greater than 6-8 months. Thus, I think of anywhere, Ebay is the one place where you will see a relatively large % of recent submissions. Given reviews, crack-and-resubmits, etc., that may account for a decent percentage of what is seen on Ebay, too.
May also be worth mentioning that of the years you've identified, that there may be a small, but important percentage of those cards coming from Topps' presentation sets. Ultra-high quality, created more for preservation than flipping, that will always contribute to a disproportionately large number of MINT cards from that timeframe.
M
<< <i>May also be worth mentioning that of the years you've identified, that there may be a small, but important percentage of those cards coming from Topps' presentation sets. Ultra-high quality, created more for preservation than flipping, that will always contribute to a disproportionately large number of MINT cards from that timeframe. >>
This is of course assuming that the Presentation Set cards will be holdered by PSA. I've got a 1963 Presentation Set in the orginal Presentation boxes, but the last two times I attemtped to submit a few of them, they were rejected for Evidence of Trimming and Minimum Size Requirement. It appears to be the norm for these sets. I know another individual that had his 1962 Set rejected three times and eventually had most of it graded with SGC.
Collect primarily 1959-1963 Topps Baseball
set registry id Don Johnson Collection
ebay id truecollector14
<< <i>I know of a few people with substantial high-grade collections that are completely raw. And most of them will even buy graded cards and crack them out as soon as they get them in hand.
There's still many purists in the hobby. >>
I WAS one until about a year ago.
Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
<< <i>
<< <i>I know of a few people with substantial high-grade collections that are completely raw. And most of them will even buy graded cards and crack them out as soon as they get them in hand.
There's still many purists in the hobby. >>
I WAS one until about a year ago.
Absolutely not, I say collect what you like!
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
So, having been collecting PSA graded cards for 8-9 years, and having participated on this [and many other] collecting forums from essentially the beginning, I have never heard of specific evidence of someone using a "laser trimmer" to alter sportscard stock. Do you have particular knowledge of laser trimming and sportscards that you would like to share with us?
M
<< <i>shagrotn...I don't understand your comment, unless it's sarcastic... >>
Andy's comment was reitterated more exactly by Ron. It was sarcastic, yet truthful.
With regard to Mr. Schoenen's challenge, anyone with such knowledge would be foolish to share it on these boards. Sort of reminds me of Nicholson's line in A Few Good Men . . . "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!" Regardless of how they presented it, they would be crucified.
I will not dignify your response. I would think with 8 or 9 years experience on this board, you'd be a little better than that. Hiding behind an avatar should not remove civility from the discussion.
As to the substance of my comment, see, e.g., dude's comments, the '75 mini thread, and undersized cards in holders online as starting points. Beyond that, OTW is spot on. Those who go into specifics about alterations on this board are generally roasted; there's a reason for that.
Ron Burgundy
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
I think the answer is much more simplier then some of you may have thought of...the years mentioned 59-64 are basically your baby-boomer age group (beginning of it anyway)...these people are now in the early 60's...I think there are boxs and boxes and tons of stuff that is still hidden in people closet, warehouse, attics...etc...that has been forgotten...and will still be found...as these people die...just for starters...
Let's use "me" as an example...I have 61-62-63 sets that I collected (and stored) myself when they were brand-new...none of them have ever seen the grading table...many of these cards are prestine...I think I have around 1000 of these cards...again never been seen by anyone accept me...never been graded...are there others like me?...I think yes...when and if these get graded...then they will add to the population...and then you will wonder "where are these cards coming from"...
They are still out there!
I know there are trimmed cards in this hobby we all know that...are there that many that would impact the population? Not sure...those that want to argue about that...can do so...but I think what I just expressed is what is really going on...
Collector
Topps 58,59,60,61,62,63,64 Sets
Fleer 60, 61-62 Sets
1. There are plenty of raw vintage cards still out there and nobody knows how many, only that the supply does not seem to be diminishing.
2. There are many aging collectors with ungraded collections or shoe boxes filled with cards, and many of these collections are being found,
sold, and graded.
3. There are a lot card doctors still at work who continually and magically turn ex-mint and near mint cards into PSA 9's, SGC 96's and BGS
9's and card grading companies are either fooled or can't or don't put a halt to this unethical process.
I certainly don't know the foolproof answer or I wouldn't have posed the question. I would hope that we just don't have a good handle on the amount of raw, ungraded, high condition cards that are still out there. I do know that at each National I am able to find some mint cards that when graded, come back 9's. Last year it was a 1973 Nolan Ryan, this year a 1966 Frank Robinson. So some dealers don't adhere to card grading as some of you shared. However, they are hard to find. I haven't heard of any big vintage card finds in my area lately but when I ask dealers at shows about where they get their stock, they often talk about people that find or inherit collections that they buy. Maybe there is still a lot of collections being found and sold as others stated. Thanks to all for your comments.
Collect primarily 1959-1963 Topps Baseball
set registry id Don Johnson Collection
ebay id truecollector14
<< <i>Wow...the question was really simple "where do all these new vintage cards keep coming from"...then for some reason the question went to the "dark" side...
I think the answer is much more simplier then some of you may have thought of...the years mentioned 59-64 are basically your baby-boomer age group (beginning of it anyway)...these people are now in the early 60's...I think there are boxs and boxes and tons of stuff that is still hidden in people closet, warehouse, attics...etc...that has been forgotten...and will still be found...as these people die...just for starters...
Let's use "me" as an example...I have 61-62-63 sets that I collected (and stored) myself when they were brand-new...none of them have ever seen the grading table...many of these cards are prestine...I think I have around 1000 of these cards...again never been seen by anyone accept me...never been graded...are there others like me?...I think yes...when and if these get graded...then they will add to the population...and then you will wonder "where are these cards coming from"...
They are still out there!
I know there are trimmed cards in this hobby we all know that...are there that many that would impact the population? Not sure...those that want to argue about that...can do so...but I think what I just expressed is what is really going on... >>
I mentioned this to Lee before, but I just wanted to let Henri know that he has what is far and away the coolest avatar in the history of these boards.
Edit to add: If you're wondering where the avatar comes from check out the banners in the beginning of the following video Mixing in a nod to Floyd with an avatar that meshes with your username? I don't think it gets better than that.
Edit to add: If you're wondering where the avatar comes from check out the banners in the beginning of the following video Mixing in a nod to Floyd with an avatar that meshes with your username? I don't think it gets better than that. >>
Am I missing something here or are you just being sarcastic? I just watched the video and that double hammer logo is warn by what appears to be Skinheads who are mercilessly attacking minorities. What's so cool about that?
<< <i><<I mentioned this to Lee before, but I just wanted to let Henri know that he has what is far and away the coolest avatar in the history of these boards.
Edit to add: If you're wondering where the avatar comes from check out the banners in the beginning of the following video Mixing in a nod to Floyd with an avatar that meshes with your username? I don't think it gets better than that. >>
Am I missing something here or are you just being sarcastic? I just watched the video and that double hammer logo is warn by what appears to be Skinheads who are mercilessly attacking minorities. What's so cool about that? >>
Maybe you have to see the whole movie to get it. Sufficient to say 'The Wall' in general-- or 'Run Like Hell' in particular-- does not champion the persecution of minorities.
At some level these are just different sides of someones personality that could come out given the right stresses and though this one is extreme it is effective to show how one really charismatic person (like a hitler or a rock star) could cause alot of trouble and have people blindly following them just because of who they are (which the movie is saying is a bad thing, think for yourself people).
First...Hank is Henri...next HammeringHank is Hank Aaron...I've also been called that during my softball playing days...hence the HammeringHank name...the avatar is (was) available on Collectors Uinverse...it was the closest thing that I could select to the name I had picked...
Having seen the video...I am not sure that I really like the avatar anymore...
Collector
Topps 58,59,60,61,62,63,64 Sets
Fleer 60, 61-62 Sets