2008 Satin Finish Blues!
Datentype
Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭
Here are some quick numbers that i crunched after reviewing in super great detail 600 sets and a total of 16,800 coins for quality.
of 16.800 coins 1.27% are worthy of sending in for 69 grade and actuals of course will be less.
States both P & D 6,000 coins 1/4 of 1% (.25) near 69 quality and actual will be less than that i'm sure.
Yuck, Kennedy and Jefferson's about 1/2 of 1% near 69 quality and extremely likely all of them will not make 69
Rooseies in 69 fb? Probably zero but I'll send in 3
Sacs, Presidential and Lincoln's are doable but quite slim.
of 16.800 coins 1.27% are worthy of sending in for 69 grade and actuals of course will be less.
States both P & D 6,000 coins 1/4 of 1% (.25) near 69 quality and actual will be less than that i'm sure.
Yuck, Kennedy and Jefferson's about 1/2 of 1% near 69 quality and extremely likely all of them will not make 69
Rooseies in 69 fb? Probably zero but I'll send in 3
Sacs, Presidential and Lincoln's are doable but quite slim.
0
Comments
Why do you think is the reason for such horrible condition? Hasn't the mints been getting better with each passing year or is it just my imagination?
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
As far as the lower quality - who knows? It is early but last year the coins only went down in quality for most denomainations for the later sets.
I wish the had left the whole thing alone where you could use one or the other. Now it takes twice as many coins each year!
We (collectors) always got our coins for the year from mint sets. So what if the finish is different? Big deal!
The Kennedys are absolutely horrible, and the sets as a whole are really bad.
You'd think that the Mint could supply us premium coins that at the very least are better than circulated rolls!
Guess I'm glad I didn't buy sets this year.
Steve
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
Empty Nest Collection
Matt’s Mattes
EDITED TO SAY: Okay all you people who have emailed me asking for what I have I will not be getting grades until Friday I have none until then. Secondly, i'm not going to just send out my list totals to people just for information purposes and for non-collectors of the series and other dealers etc. I am not stupid. You can tell me what you are looking for and i will get you prices
Looks like the first PCGS MS69 Satin Finish State Quarter to show up for sale
PCGS MS69 2008-P Oklahoma State Quarter Satin Finish
Would be better to use the right picture
<< <i>Would that be considered a mechanical error >>
Yes, by the seller!
Gardnerville, NV
=========================
Our Website -->Innovation, Native & Presidential Dollar Errors, Lincoln Cents and more
Check it out --> Our eBay Auctions
please explain to me from the above why I should pay over $2000for a ,PCGS MS69 2008-P Oklahoma State Quarter Satin Finish. When I can get a , PCGS MS69 2008-W Silver Eagle Dollar Coin FIRST STRIKE for $37.00.
Theres things here I just don't understand.
I think I can explain. Simply put, it's supply and demand. Geeze, I hope I'm right or I'll be
RegistryNut
<< <i>results are in. What a waste of time! >>
Tough Year for MS69s. How many Presidents in MS69 out of 600 Mint Sets? I remember you saying something about how none were tougher than GW-Ps from last year. Still feel the same?
PCGS MS69 2008-P Oklahoma State Quarter Satin Finish
Wow the highest Pop to date only 7 coins graded MS69 sells for $1800.00 !!!!
Wondercoin
<< <i>where tons of coins are still in the system to be graded) >>
We have ZERO State Quarters in for grading and not quite sure when or if we will do more. Anyone else have States in Mark? Seth? Anyone else? who can add some weight to scale to tip it more than a few pounds?
I want to make a living as a coin dealer over the long run and i know there are a lot of customers out there that need good "affordable" high end product. here's the problem with the ok-p: if pcgs loosens up around christmas time 1/4 grade they will be plentiful in my opinion.
Here's the deal, i might as well expose myself right here and right now: These satin finish coins are not rare in 69
Okay, you're all saying where are the coins then? They are right in the million of sets that have not been purchased yet. The problem lies in it not being economically feasible in my opinion to search for them as follows:
1.) face value is $13.82 and cost is $22.95, so you are in the hole $9.13 right off the start assuming the Ebay pieces net to face value after fees.
2.)pcgs has some gravy train formula that they feel is creating a new market for the coins by making people slab 68 coin rather than a minimum 69 grade like last year. The problem with that is there are thousands of over graded coins from last year which is a direct slap in the face to the people that know it. I guess pcgs got tired of putting over graded coins in 9 holders to make a paycheck. Once again an admirable move for the "collector's company". But will these collectors be around when that vein of product comes around or that 1/4 point christmas bonus?
3.) I forgot what do you do with your $22,950 investment after you have gone through 1,000 sets? If you had them graded you live in a sea of plastic. if you have a deal with a re-saler you are still in debt and have placed a huge sum of money in coins and plastic that are not rare and will take years to sell.
dang typos edited and ohh I forgot I hope i'm not in trouble with the pcgs politboro that will soon tell me freedom of speech does not apply to pcgs dealers.
I don't know why you dealers bother with these modern coins. Sure there are a few thousand collectors here on the registry (I don't know the actual number who collect moderns), but only a few who will pay the big bucks for the super high (69 or 70) grades. The thousands and thousands of average collectors out there only want a nice cheap coin. The market for these top pop coins looks very very very thin to me. I consider myself a very passionate collector and I just got my dimes for my complete dime set on ebay. Both the 2008 P&D in 68 for 10 bucks each. I know they are "ONLY" 68's, but that is 3 points "OVER" GEM!!!!! I just don't understand the need for these super high grades. I know many will scoff at these 68's, but if they were Barber halves they would be super coins!?
And as several dealers here have stated, the cost and time to find these super high grades is tremendous. I just don't get it. Spending thousands or even hundreds of dollars for coins minted yesterday!?!?!?
JMHO
I admit that I tried doing what you and a few other members are doing now. Only I tried in 2006 which was not one of the better years, IMO. Your points are exactly what I came to find out. Unless you like to live in plastic it is a tough way to make it. I commend those who can do it and make a profit at it.
Millions of mint sets out there still waiting for someone to find the next DE P MS69
Moving on to the next project
Mike, unfortunately the 99' to date coins have all dropped huge amounts since an ms67 was a hot coin in a 99' state holder and sold for well over a thousand. People find a way and the money brings out the search. As always is the wild card, will pcgs grade that 2003-d sac as an 8 today or that de-p as a 9 today and do they have proper controls in place to catch errors or are they used to grading all sac's as 8's or 9's that day etc.
The notion of submitting incredible quantities of coins to find more high end specimens of something applies to many coins dated in the 1960's - date (and for some denominations the 1940's to date!) - not just 2008 SF coins. It's now a year later and G. Washington MS69 SF coins are now worth strongly between $1,000 - $2,000 per coin. Why hasn't anyone recently (other than Seth
Wondercoin
Mark - That is a very "deep" post and I do understand exactly what you are trying to convey. I agree with you on the point that the grading services should permit whatever min grade submittors desire to utilize. Of course, PCGS has the right to charge a fee for every coin that fails to make the minimum grade and therein lies the problem. PCGS has determined from their early submissions that it is only "profitable" to them and the submittors jointly to use the MS68 grade level (i.e. that few coins are grading MS69). I believe it is that freedom of the submittor to make a choice of min grade that should be permitted, as it was last year - even if it means submittors getting back invoices with no coins slabbed on the invoice and a bill for hundreds of failed submissions with nothing in return. Why not? But, by having the min grade set, it does make it easy for the "less informed" to submit coins and have a chance to make any money, which is probably behind PCGS' position, not to mention dollars in the door of course.
Wondercoin
P.S. At least we are having an interesting discussion today on this board.
When I consider buying 2008 SF coins I look at a hypothetical value 60 days from now. IMHO the OK-P sf69 is currently worth around $800 and could easily fall to $500 within 30 days if the pop hits 20 coins and that is very likely. Only bulk sf orders seen so far and lots of collector orders in the pipeline. If the pop of the OK-P sf69 stays at 7 coins over the next 30 days the value will double to around $1,600.
A volatile and risky market not for the faint of heart. First time in many years I did not order mint sets, interesting to see this from the outside looking in for a change. Ain't it fun! dr
<< <i>Mike, I have states in and I plan on doing more satin finish sets.
I want to make a living as a coin dealer over the long run and i know there are a lot of customers out there that need good "affordable" high end product. here's the problem with the ok-p: if pcgs loosens up around christmas time 1/4 grade they will be plentiful in my opinion.
Here's the deal, i might as well expose myself right here and right now: These satin finish coins are not rare in 69
Okay, you're all saying where are the coins then? They are right in the million of sets that have not been purchased yet. The problem lies in it not being economically feasible in my opinion to search for them as follows:
1.) face value is $13.82 and cost is $22.95, so you are in the hole $9.13 right off the start assuming the Ebay pieces net to face value after fees.
2.)pcgs has some gravy train formula that they feel is creating a new market for the coins by making people slab 68 coin rather than a minimum 69 grade like last year. The problem with that is there are thousands of over graded coins from last year which is a direct slap in the face to the people that know it. I guess pcgs got tired of putting over graded coins in 9 holders to make a paycheck. Once again an admirable move for the "collector's company". But will these collectors be around when that vein of product comes around or that 1/4 point christmas bonus?
3.) I forgot what do you do with your $22,950 investment after you have gone through 1,000 sets? If you had them graded you live in a sea of plastic. if you have a deal with a re-saler you are still in debt and have placed a huge sum of money in coins and plastic that are not rare and will take years to sell.
dang typos edited and ohh I forgot I hope i'm not in trouble with the pcgs politboro that will soon tell me freedom of speech does not apply to pcgs dealers. >>
Your listings on eBay say that the 69s are rare, but maybe you need to post the above statements on your ebay listings too if you're being fair & honest?
<< <i>Seth, I sense someone is getting a little pissy with me and i like it - let's dance!
I think you're acting like a clown & have no business being a dealer with your willingness to publicly drag all of your dirtly laundry out. You ought to hang your head in shame instead of getting froggy with the first person to point it out.
Wondercoin
I got a perfect 10 MS69 set including the then rare KS-P as well as the still rare WV-D, and the WV-D pop held at two and then three for a long time. Admittedly this was a lucky once in a lifetime situation where I got the very first strike sets from the mint in a year where the quality was superlative (first year of SF).
There are other ways to get MS69 graded without generating a closet full of slabs. I trust in the PCGS system and they will grade MS69 if the coin submitted deserves the grade. I applaud PCGS effort of not giving up grades in exchange for large grading orders. You should not have to submit hundreds of coins to get PCGS MS69 IMHO.
If you are very selective in grading you end up with a lot more intact mint sets to resell that still contain MS68 quality coins and these gently used sets should be worth more on the open market than a $9 face value loss for each set. Under selective grading the value of MS68 will hold up better as the supply generated by slective grading will be less and the quality of the slabbed coins will be overall higher since only shot 69 coins will be submitted.
I appreciate you guys doing the hunting now and the huge amount of money and work it takes to find these rare MS69 coins and get the proper grade on them! This year the landscape has changed and to remain economically competitive selective grading orders may be a superior way to go.
Thanks for all the coins you all have sold me in the past and in the future. Your pedigree may be found next to each coin in my registry. dr
Agreed, but, I sure know a few very respected modern submittors with such closets, so to each his own. And, I am perfectly fine with the strategy of buying 500-1000 sets and screening up to 28,000 coins to find a couple hundred submittable coins - I have used this strategy effectively myself in various programs. What was a good strategy in 2005 might be a horrible strategy in 2008 and vice versa
Wondercoin
I have also talked to Seth on the phone about the issue in a calm manner and he is in total agreement with the substance of my remarks on this post. The only problem he has is that I said it period. It is true this sort of stance hurts authorized dealers overall - as it makes collectors tentative and unsure of when and how much to pay. That is my whole point though, I do not want someone to pay $1,800 for a coin, like the ok-p, that is less informed. I would just like to educate the public in some sort of way about this situation and let them know how really difficult these coins are in high grade but wait to buy as many have a decent chance to go down. The information is not in, it is early.
I had that point covered a page or two ago! LOL
Wondercoin
Coin Diva for Vice President.
EZ_E/Victor/Mr.Yuk: lover of prehistoric, megabeast-sized canines. EVP
I'd have missed it if it weren't linked ATS.
It won't be long until these coins are no longer current and this thread is in the archives.