<< <i>Englehard's out of business? I had no idea................. >>
J&M may as well be. They have a very limited capacity for production and they aren't even doing that.
Some months this year they produced as few as 20 100 ounce bars total, actually, some months they produced zero.
Unlikely they will do much more than 400 bars for the year. They aren't making anything but 100 ouncers anymore.
They are mostly doing pellets for jewelry, better mark up.
Actually, many of the older 100 ounce bars are now being melted for jewelry.
Some people will still stick to the claim that there is no shortage, but that simply isn't true.
Nearly 50% of all production is used for industry, 25% for jewelry, 20% still used for photography so that leaves little for investment. What little there is, is shrinking monthly. There is only one way silver can go and I believe the manipulators used their last wild card earlier this month.
That's the reason we're seeing $3 to $4 premiums per ounce on 100 ounce bars on eBay.
The market will eventually be reflected in the spot price once again and the paper sellers won't be able to control it as they have for years. Once the paper people begin to demand their physical in exchange............. well, it should get very interesting. And people are actually going to act surprised when spot blows through the roof, as if they had no warning...............
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
They are mostly doing pellets for jewelry, better mark up.
Actually, many of the older 100 ounce bars are now being melted for jewelry...
That's the reason we're seeing $3 to $4 premiums per ounce on 100 ounce bars on eBay.
>>
This does not make sense to me. How can a bag of jewelry pellets that I assume sell for spot or a few cents over have a better mark up that something you could sell on Ebay for $3-4 over spot? And if there is a better profit from selling on Ebay then why aren't the miners/bar manufacturers making more bars for investors? There appears to be another parameter in this supply/demand equation, right?
They are mostly doing pellets for jewelry, better mark up.
Actually, many of the older 100 ounce bars are now being melted for jewelry...
That's the reason we're seeing $3 to $4 premiums per ounce on 100 ounce bars on eBay.
>>
This does not make sense to me. How can a bag of jewelry pellets that I assume sell for spot or a few cents over have a better mark up that something you could sell on Ebay for $3-4 over spot? And if there is a better profit from selling on Ebay then why aren't the miners/bar manufacturers making more bars for investors? There appears to be another parameter in this supply/demand equation, right?
>>
J&M didn't sell their bars retail, they were sold to wholesalers at well below spot. That's true of the generic producers as well when they moved large amounts of product.
The price for the pellets is well above spot and the demand is huge overseas. They are bidding against industry for the product and bidding with a currency that is stronger than the dollar. Not to mention that the labor/cost to manufacture the pellets is very, very low when compared to extruding or pouring bars.
Never assume. As far as making more for investors, not gonna happen. The supply is limited and going down, silver is a surface metal and all the cherrypicking has been done. There are many people who will tell you that .999 silver is actually more rare than .999 gold and these people are in a position to know, it's actually been that way for some time now. You thought you were confused before? Get your head around that.
Besides, aside from J&M, there are the other generic producers out there and they can't get the supply and with spot being manipulated down, they are also better off selling pellets for jewelry overseas. The demand in India alone far outstrips US investors.
Industry is always going to get theirs, in some cases silver is a strategic metal. Many think silver backed film photography is a thing of the past and it is in many ways in the US, but the old Kodak camera and the throw away pre-loaded cameras we had years ago are just now reaching third world countries. There are now billions of people who can access personal photography that have never had such a thing before. They are like kids with a new toy, and a very affordable one at that.
It's not a pretty picture if one is trying to put together a hoard these days, but it's just what many of us knew was coming 8-10 years ago. Some regular folks are going to become wealthy in a big way.
I think there are is a solid group of people here on these forums who have known what was coming and have quietly been putting it away for some time. Some chose gold and some silver, but the general concensus has been that silver would outperform gold in the long run. It couldn't really go any other way. When silver is used for industry it is used as in gone forever. We still have 99.9% of all the gold ever mined on the planet and we are still using up nearly 50% of the silver that is processed every year and we have been running at a deficit against mining production for decades now.
Eventually, push comes to shove.
I believe if it weren't for the SLV formation a few years ago, spot would be over $30 and climbing today.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Comments
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Englehard's out of business? I had no idea.................
not out of business but out of the wholesale bullion minting thing.
since the early 80s if i remember correctly.
but they are the type of company, if enough money is involved, they
will do most anything for you chemical/metal/etc... wise.
BASF bought them. http://www.basf.com/
<< <i>Englehard's out of business? I had no idea.................
J&M may as well be. They have a very limited capacity for production and they aren't even doing that.
Some months this year they produced as few as 20 100 ounce bars total, actually, some months they produced zero.
Unlikely they will do much more than 400 bars for the year. They aren't making anything but 100 ouncers anymore.
They are mostly doing pellets for jewelry, better mark up.
Actually, many of the older 100 ounce bars are now being melted for jewelry.
Some people will still stick to the claim that there is no shortage, but that simply isn't true.
Nearly 50% of all production is used for industry, 25% for jewelry, 20% still used for photography so that leaves little for investment. What little there is, is shrinking monthly. There is only one way silver can go and I believe the manipulators used their last wild card earlier this month.
That's the reason we're seeing $3 to $4 premiums per ounce on 100 ounce bars on eBay.
The market will eventually be reflected in the spot price once again and the paper sellers won't be able to control it as they have for years. Once the paper people begin to demand their physical in exchange............. well, it should get very interesting. And people are actually going to act surprised when spot blows through the roof, as if they had no warning...............
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>
They are mostly doing pellets for jewelry, better mark up.
Actually, many of the older 100 ounce bars are now being melted for jewelry...
That's the reason we're seeing $3 to $4 premiums per ounce on 100 ounce bars on eBay.
>>
This does not make sense to me. How can a bag of jewelry pellets that I assume sell for spot or a few cents over have a better mark up that something you could sell on Ebay for $3-4 over spot? And if there is a better profit from selling on Ebay then why aren't the miners/bar manufacturers making more bars for investors?
There appears to be another parameter in this supply/demand equation, right?
<< <i>
<< <i>
They are mostly doing pellets for jewelry, better mark up.
Actually, many of the older 100 ounce bars are now being melted for jewelry...
That's the reason we're seeing $3 to $4 premiums per ounce on 100 ounce bars on eBay.
>>
This does not make sense to me. How can a bag of jewelry pellets that I assume sell for spot or a few cents over have a better mark up that something you could sell on Ebay for $3-4 over spot? And if there is a better profit from selling on Ebay then why aren't the miners/bar manufacturers making more bars for investors?
There appears to be another parameter in this supply/demand equation, right?
J&M didn't sell their bars retail, they were sold to wholesalers at well below spot. That's true of the generic producers as well when they moved large amounts of product.
The price for the pellets is well above spot and the demand is huge overseas. They are bidding against industry for the product and bidding with a currency that is stronger than the dollar. Not to mention that the labor/cost to manufacture the pellets is very, very low when compared to extruding or pouring bars.
Never assume. As far as making more for investors, not gonna happen. The supply is limited and going down, silver is a surface metal and all the cherrypicking has been done. There are many people who will tell you that .999 silver is actually more rare than .999 gold and these people are in a position to know, it's actually been that way for some time now. You thought you were confused before? Get your head around that.
Besides, aside from J&M, there are the other generic producers out there and they can't get the supply and with spot being manipulated down, they are also better off selling pellets for jewelry overseas. The demand in India alone far outstrips US investors.
Industry is always going to get theirs, in some cases silver is a strategic metal. Many think silver backed film photography is a thing of the past and it is in many ways in the US, but the old Kodak camera and the throw away pre-loaded cameras we had years ago are just now reaching third world countries. There are now billions of people who can access personal photography that have never had such a thing before. They are like kids with a new toy, and a very affordable one at that.
It's not a pretty picture if one is trying to put together a hoard these days, but it's just what many of us knew was coming 8-10 years ago. Some regular folks are going to become wealthy in a big way.
I think there are is a solid group of people here on these forums who have known what was coming and have quietly been putting it away for some time. Some chose gold and some silver, but the general concensus has been that silver would outperform gold in the long run. It couldn't really go any other way. When silver is used for industry it is used as in gone forever. We still have 99.9% of all the gold ever mined on the planet and we are still using up nearly 50% of the silver that is processed every year and we have been running at a deficit against mining production for decades now.
Eventually, push comes to shove.
I believe if it weren't for the SLV formation a few years ago, spot would be over $30 and climbing today.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff