Options
Buyer leaves positive feedback, then files Paypal not received claim. UPDATE, 9/16.
RonBurgundy
Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
Looks like I'm the latest victim of Paypal's seller victimization policy. Buyer buys card on 7/6, leaves feedback on 7/16, then files claim today that he never got the card. From 7/16 to today he never contacted me saying he didn't get it. Money is being withheld from me, of course. Now I have to comb through receipts to see if I have the USPS DELIVERY CONFIRMATION INSURED RECEIPT to show that this jackass received his card.
acadian is his Ebay ID.
I will shut down my paypal account if this ever happens again. Unbelievable.
Ron
acadian is his Ebay ID.
I will shut down my paypal account if this ever happens again. Unbelievable.
Ron
Ron Burgundy
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
0
Comments
that is messt up bro.
i have no suggestions, but am axious to see how this all plays out w/ you.
J
RIP GURU
that always worked for me.
<< <i>if you are an ebay "regular" seller keep all of your receipts together for each week that ended and put a label on the top of the stack. I always filled out all of my own insurance and del. con sheets myself and made a tiny note on one or the other who the bidder or what the item was.
that always worked for me. >>
//////////////////////////////////
That is the correct solution.
Because we are now seeing credit-card chagebacks being made on
sales that are YEARS old, the DC/SC tickets should be kept "forever."
Getting a BIG stack of sequentially-numbered DC tickets can be helpful.
If the one you need gets misplaced, you can search by date range;
changing the numbers you input until you hit the right one on the USPS
site.
"Feedback Left" is never accepted as a pure defense to an INR. It should
always be included as an adjunct defense, but PP does not look at it.
They know that MANY buyers are dumber than shoes and have no idea
what items they are leaving FB for.
If this doesn't get worked out, I would contact PSA, show them the INR claim, and see if they can eliminate that certification number from their registry. At least that would force the buyer to resubmit the card if he really received it (and if there's any justice in this world it would come back a 7).
PoppaJ
<< <i>I always include the dc# in feedback, that way I can easily find it in case a problem like this arises. >>
//////////////////////////////
A properly worded complaint from a buyer to EBAY can get such FB removed.
Under a broad interpretation of the FB rules, it violates the "personal information"
restriction. A third-party can enter the number of the DC/SC and discover the
location/name respectively of the buyer.
I also used to enter the numbers in FB until a buyer climbed all over me about
his name and zip being shown on the SC. We filed for MW of FB and I stopped the
practice.
Status: Delivered
Your item was delivered at 9:09 AM on July 14, 2008 in CHELMSFORD, MA 01824.
Methinks this is either a really bad mistake or there's a scam artist at work.
RB
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
////////////////////
As long as the item was under $250, you are covered with your DC; slam dunk.
EBAY is crawling with CROOKED "buyers."
And, as Griff said in Chicago: "We need buyers, whether they pay or not."
I'm going to email him in a bit from my work address, and my title indicating "attorney" and see if this can't be put to bed. If not, Burgundy may go Texas.
RB
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>$365 item, sent insured with DC.
I'm going to email him in a bit from my work address, and my title indicating "attorney" and see if this can't be put to bed. If not, Burgundy may go Texas.
RB >>
///////////////////////////////
Carp.
Sounds like you have a scammer who KNOWS that only SigCon
will fly with PayPal, over $250.
In Small Claims, the DC and the FB would prevail for the seller.
The courts are NOT as INSANE as PayPal is.
..........
What sellers need is a non-profit, unincorporated syndicate in all 50-states. The members,
on paper, would own a 1% undivided interest in the inventory of ALL other participants.
In the event of a "problem," a member would immediately file in Small Claims.
The CRIMINALS would either back down fast, or they would get a judgement
against them and their lives would be made miserable for a long time.
The crooks NOW have free sailing because most jurisdictions lack "long arm statutes"
that would allow sellers to easily litigate across state lines. If every seller had a
"partner" in every state, the scamsters could be stopped.
As internet law evolves, there may be some natural relief that presents. Until then,
planes/trains/automobiles are the only vehicles to justice.
Since it was insured for that amount, I'd go to your post office (or maybe you can just call the 1-800 #?) and see if they can bring up a signature. They should have gotten one upon delivery and if they didn't I would think you could win an insurance claim even if the DC # shows "delivered."
The delivery time (9 am on a Monday morning) looks somewhat suspect especially given that the buyer would have to be home. Also, my carrier once told me that his supervisor would occasionally scan his packages before he went on his route, and the records would show they were delivered hours before they were. Don't ask me why.
That would be a lot of coincidences given the buyer left feedback, but there's still a slim chance your package was lost/stolen before delivery.
Since the "missing" item was insured, a USPS INS claim should be filed,
if PayPal does not QUICKLY see the light.
The insurance investigator will love chatting with the "buyer" about the FB he left.
//////////
There is always the slim chance that the "buyer" filed on the wrong item. So,
a nice "lawyer letter" might solve the problem.
Sorry to say, you might have an issue with this claim.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I am finding that for sports cards at least (and coins) that sellers who no longer accept paypal aren't getting any significantly lowered realized prices as long as they have impressive feedback. That sounds like the way to go if this keeps up, as long as ebay allows sellers to accept only checks and money orders. It's just not worth the hassle anymore, and even if you follow the rules, you can get burned now. >>
///////////////////////////////////
I agree; for low/medium-volume collectibles.
BUT, you cannot sell what I sell without PP. The fashion/electronics
buyers all pay with PP.
I would have to pay most of the money I make to someone just to
do the paperwork/accounting that I get for "free" from PP, if I were
to switch to paper-payments. It took me a long time to set it up like
I have it, and I cannot economically change it.
/////////
The solution is to force PP out of the dispute process. If a buyer has
a problem, they need to go to their credit-card company; just like in
the real world. In other retail businesses, I NEVER have this kind of
carp with regular merchant accounts.
Most people will not defraud their credit-card company with fake SNAD/INR
claims. PayPal is easy pickings and there are no consequences, EVEN
when the "buyer" is clearly shown to be a scammer.
REAL banks/credit-card companies that offer merchant accounts allow
the SELLER to set his return/refund policies, provided they are lawful.
PP is just a fantasy land for SCAMSTERS, who want to use stuff and return
it broken, wear stuff and return it filthy, switch old for new and return it.
I'm going to contact the post office in the morning to determine who signed for the card when it was delivered, and also to start the insurance process. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
This is why I am considering getting out - headaches like this are not worth it.
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
//////////////////////////////
That is Job ONE.
.........
I would not play the feedback card with the USPS out of the gate.
Withholding the info until it is to your advantage to use it is not illegal.
Disclosing it from the start could cause the PO to refuse to file the
claim. I would just say, "This guy claims he did not receive the item."
The PO guys on his end will chat him up.
OFTEN, when the investigators start poking around, the "missing item"
magically reappears.
/////////
PS: The guy's nonsense bactracking on the FB issue is a CLEAR
indication that he is on the scam train.
I acquired the insurance signature page from the USPS. It is little more than a scribble. Provided it and all pertinent information to Paypal.
Today, they REVERSED a transfer made to my bank account earlier in the week, pulled the money back out of my account, and refunded the seller with nary a word as to why. To top it all off, they still took their fees!
This is incredible. Simply incredible. I am going to review my litigation options against them and seriously considering filing suit on the grounds that the user agreement is unconscionable, in that it forces sellers to give up significant rights including, apparently, the right to preserve money in your own bank account. I will use every political connection that I have in this state to get the Attorney General's office to review these practices. Methinks there may be an Attorneys General class action in the not too distant future.
They don't conduct investigations. They simply wash their hands of the whole thing at the expense of the sellers.
Gary Muise - acadian3 on Ebay: I'm still waiting to see WHY YOU FRIGGIN' LEFT ME POSITIVE FEEDBACK TWO DAYS AFTER THE CARD WAS DELIVERED. Perhaps you would like to answer that under a sworn deposition. The process server will have your address on Monday morning.
Ron $%#@! Burgundy
Footnote added: Yes, I filed an insurance claim with USPS. I'm giving the file to a postal inspector on Monday.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Your buyer has been mentioned here b4 I think.
Steve
He is now blocked on my bidder list
Email: OPCBASEBALL@YAHOO.COM
Follow OPCBASEBALL.COM on Facebook
Good luck my friend.
Good luck with this RB!
NOBODY here has a bigger i-hate-pp file than I do. However........
The OP - Ron - did NOT abide by the PP TOS-provisions that provide
for "seller protection." THAT is ALL that the bots and monkey-pods
at PP can/will take into account.
Sig-Con in hand would have rendered a different result in the INR.
..............
There are some reports that the BBB has had some success in getting
PP to consider signed-insurance tickets, but it is a long shot.
The best route NOW is to force the USPS-insurance to pay the claim. If
USPS does not want to pay, their alternative is to "deal with" the SCUM
"buyer" in some other way. OR, the USPS can get a lawyer-letter explaining
"bad faith" to them; that would likely do the trick.
My guess is that the USPS will simply pay the claim.
His auction
Why would the PO pay the claim if the DC shows it was delivered?
Not sure they will pay it....
Email: OPCBASEBALL@YAHOO.COM
Follow OPCBASEBALL.COM on Facebook
<< <i>"My guess is that the USPS will simply pay the claim."
Why would the PO pay the claim if the DC shows it was delivered?
Not sure they will pay it.... >>
//////////////////////////////////
The folks that examine the claims KNOW that a "signed ticket" is NOT
"proof positive" that delivery was made. Mistakes happen; stuff gets
delivered to the wrong place and signed for; a lazy carrier can simply
scribble on the ticket and toss the item into the mail-box.
If the buyer is a pro and stands firm in his denials, the chances for
a quickly paid claim are pretty good.
My WAG is that they pay.
OP said, "....I acquired the insurance signature page from the USPS. It is little more than a scribble...."
When the USPS shows the guy the scratchings, the guy may fold; maybe not.
....................
The bad-guy's FB is mighty strong.
Maybe the card went somewhere else. Maybe he is a crook. No way to know
from here, BUT the USPS guys have radar when they interview folks.
<< <i>OP said, "....I acquired the insurance signature page from the USPS. It is little more than a scribble...."
When the USPS shows the guy the scratchings, the guy may fold; maybe not.
....................
The bad-guy's FB is mighty strong.
Maybe the card went somewhere else. Maybe he is a crook. No way to know
from here, BUT the USPS guys have radar when they interview folks. >>
You know, I was just thinking. If I was a little dishonest, and the mailman brought somebody else's package to my house, I would scribble my name also.
But if the actual buyer always scribbles that way (driver license) he might end up in some trouble if he doesn't come clean right away.
But if the actual buyer always scribbles that way (driver license) he might end up in some trouble if he doesn't come clean right away. "
////////////////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////////////
Yup.
And, if the inspector is bored, he will wait a couple weeks and mail the guy
a cert-ltr that requires a sig.
Amateurs are not really good at disguising the way they ordinarily sign, even when they are trying to.
It is more likely, if the guy is a crook, that he purposely altered his sig when he received the item.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Jeff
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>Methinks he just scribbled something illegible. The card is an expensive low pop card and he wanted to get a freebie. We will see if its all worth it when I sue him in Texas. Time to lawyer up. >>
////////////////////////////////////////////////////
TX has a nice long-arm statute, but I'd rather go after him in MA.
The guy sells and offers to sell and deliver in TX. He may well be
subject to some kind of jurisdiction in TX.
But, it would be more embarrassing to him, and the judgment would
likely be easier to collect in his hometown.
If your TX lawyer has a friend in MA, it would be easy to arrange
economically.
The other thing to consider is that "you might not win." The preponderance
standard looks easier on Judge Judy than it is in real life. If the guy sticks
to his story of "item misdelivered and signed for by an unknown third-party,"
a good lawyer could make it into a tie. You only need to tip the scale slightly,
but you DO need to tip it some.
The SMART play is patience. PRAY that the USPS simply pays for a "carrier
error." If not, you have plenty of time to decide.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Warning: The following opinion is provided for purposes of discussion only. We have not Shepardized™ this opinion, and do not know the subsequent disposition of this case nor whether the effect of the opinion has been overruled or superceded by other law.
Excerpted From..........
Michael H. Vosko v. The Chase Manhattan Bank, N.A.,
1995.TX.923 (Tex.App. 08/28/1995)
BLUE BOOK CITATION FORM: 1995.TX.923
Reversed and Rendered and Opinion filed August 24, 1995.
In The Fourteenth Court of Appeals
NO. 14-93-00494-CV
MICHAEL H. VOSKO,
Appellant
V.
THE CHASE MANHATTAN BANK, N.A.,
Appellee
On Appeal from the 270th District Court Harris County, Texas Trial Court Cause No. 90-57001
A Texas court may exercise jurisdiction over a nonresident if it is authorized by the Texas long-arm statute,*fn2 and if it is consistent with federal and state constitutional due process guarantees. Schlobohm v. Schapiro, 784 S.W.2d 355, 356 (Tex. 1990). The Texas long-arm statute authorizes the exercise of jurisdiction over nonresidents "doing business" in Texas, as defined in that provision. TEX. CIV. PRAC. & REM. CODE ANN. Section(s) 17.042 (Vernon 1986).*fn3 In addition to the acts specified, the long-arm statute provides that other, unspecified acts by a non-resident may also constitute "doing business." Moreover, the broad language of this "doing business" requirement permits the statute to reach as far as federal constitutional requirements of due process will allow. Guardian Royal Exch. Assurance, Ltd. v. English China Clays, P.L.C., 815 S.W.2d 223, 226 (Tex. 1991).
Since the "doing business" concept extends as far as due process will allow, it follows that any activity or contact which satisfies due process also constitutes doing business, and that any activity or contact which does not satisfy due process does not constitute doing business. As a practical matter, therefore, we need not analyze the "doing business" requirement apart from the due process requirement since the scope of each is coextensive.
The two prongs of the due process requirement have recently been reiterated by the Texas Supreme Court as follows:
[1] In order for a court's assertion of jurisdiction over a nonresident defendant to comport with due process, the defendant must have purposefully established minimum contacts with the forum state such that it could reasonably anticipate being sued in the courts of the state. [2] The exercise of jurisdiction must also comport with fair play and substantial justice. Nat'l Indus. Sand Ass'n v. Gibson, 897 S.W.2d 769, 772 (Tex. 1995) (citations omitted).
The minimum contacts requirement is satisfied if either general or specific jurisdiction exists. General jurisdiction is present where the defendant has had continuous and systematic contacts with Texas, even if the cause of action did not arise from the defendant's purposeful conduct in the state. Id.
For a trial court to have specific jurisdiction, the plaintiff's cause of action must arise out of or relate to the nonresident defendant's contacts with Texas. Id. The defendant's activities must have been "purposefully directed" to the forum, and the litigation must result from injuries arising from or relating to those activities. Guardian Royal, 815 S.W.2d at 228.
To invoke the fair play and substantial justice prong of due process, a nonresident defendant must present a compelling case that the exercise of jurisdiction would be unreasonable. In re S.A.V., 837 S.W.2d 80, 85 (Tex. 1992).*fn4 However, once minimum contacts have been established, the exercise of jurisdiction will rarely fail to comport with fair play and substantial justice. Id. at 86. A defendant asserting lack of personal jurisdiction by special appearance has the burden of negating all bases of jurisdiction. Gibson, 897 S.W.2d at 772. However, if the plaintiff does not allege that the defendant performed a specific act in Texas, the defendant's evidence that he is a nonresident is enough to carry his burden of proof. Siskind v. Villa Foundation for Education, Inc., 642 S.W.2d 434, 437-38 (Tex. 1982).
On appeal, the scope of review of a ruling on a special appearance includes all evidence in the record. Carbonit Houston, Inc. v. Exchange Bank, 628 S.W.2d 826, 829 (Tex. Civ. App. -- Houston [14th Dist.] 1982, writ ref'd n.r.e.). Therefore, in reviewing the assertion of personal jurisdiction over Michael, we will consider the evidence adduced at trial as well as the special appearance hearing. We first address whether Michael's contacts with Texas were continuous and systematic enough to afford general jurisdiction. The facts relevant to this issue are that: Michael is a citizen of Canada; he owned a home and resided in Houston from July of 1982 until September of 1987, and has since resided in England; he held a Texas driver's license until 1985 or 1987; he held an immigration permit to live and work in Houston through January of 1986; he was an officer and director of Bassett while he resided in Texas; Michael was an officer and director of Petroder until at least March of 1990; Petroder's only place of business was Houston; after moving his residence from Texas, Michael returned to the State to conduct Petroder business on one occasion in 1988 and one in 1989; and, since that time, Michael has personally had no business activity in Texas, owned no property in Texas, and has had no employees, servants or agents in Texas. Notably, after 1987, Michael's only contacts with the State were to conduct Petroder business. Thus, his personal contacts with the State ended roughly three years before Chase's cause of action arose. Moreover, his former residence and contacts in Texas did not avail him of the benefits and protections of the State after that residency was relinquished.*fn5
Similarly, jurisdiction over an individual generally cannot be based on jurisdiction over a corporation with which he is associated unless the corporation is the alter ego of the individual. Clark v. Noyes, 871 S.W.2d 508, 509 (Tex. App. -- Dallas 1994, no writ); Leon Ltd. v. Albuquerque Commons Partnership, 862 S.W.2d 693, 708 (Tex. App. -- El Paso 1993, no writ).*fn6 Therefore, although Texas clearly had general jurisdiction over Petroder, that did not create jurisdiction over Michael since Petroder was not alleged or proved to be Michael's alter ego. Nor was jurisdiction over Michael conferred by his being found to be the alter ego of the Trust or Young since jurisdiction was not established with regard to either of those entities. Under these circumstances, we are unable to find that Michael had sufficiently continuous and systematic contacts with Texas to establish general jurisdiction over him.
Full Opinion
///////////////////////////////////////
This is an academic discussion, and no advice, legal or otherwise, is being dispensed.
<< <i>Is it a graded card that you can some how check to see if the serial number has been registered??
Jeff >>
///////////////////////////////////////////
If he stole the card, it was likely removed from the slab on day one.
Unless he is like the thieving idiot mail-carrier we were reading about here the other day.
In any case, score a hard fought win for a seller.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items