anyone please help with these.....

BXBOY143

i have had them for a while any info on what they are can anyone help??

much appriciated
best regards

-Paul

lordmarcovan

#1 is a papal/Vatican medal of some kind, probably modern (but of nice quality and rather interesting). I seem to recall you posting it before. See if you can find the earlier thread. I know I've seen it here before.

#2 is a Roman bronze of the emperor Antoninus Pius (138-161 AD). Unfortunately, I am having severe satellite DSL and/or browser issues at the moment, and your pictures only load about a third of the way down and then quit.

coachleonard

first medal is very interesting looking but i don't what it is..i'd be curious to know. second piece appears to be a roman sestertius of Antonius Pius 138-61 A.D

Iosephus

The first piece is from the reign of Pope Paul VI (1963-1978); more specifically, ~1967. The reverse is a stylized representation of the pontiff's coat of arms (your second pciture is upside-down). This medal appears to be an unofficial issue, and was issued in gold-plated pewter with a diameter of 34 mm. The medal commemorates the 19th centennial of the martyrdom of Saints Peter and Paul (depicted on the obverse).

STLNATS

The vatican medal doesn't seem to be in DeLuca, but is listed in Calo as #66 were it is indicated as an extraordinary issue. The annual medal for year 5 featured a similar theme as Joe indicated as the 19th centennial of the martyrdom of Saints Peter and Paul. I didn't want to hijack this thread so presented it here: year 5 annual medal

? Joe, is this an official vatican issue or a private issue? There are a few other pieces listed in Calo which are privately made.

The second is a brass sestertius of Antoninianus Pius. I can't quite make out the legend in exergue on the reverse but it should reference the goddess on the reverse. A guick look thru Wildwinds produced a similar looking coin, altho the exergue inscription seems different:

link

Both interesting coins.

Iosephus

<< <i>? Joe, is this an official vatican issue or a private issue? There are a few other pieces listed in Calo which are privately made. >>



I'm really not sure. I've noticed that Calò lists many medals as "straordinaria" which do not seem to be official. The medal also does not "feel" official to me in terms of design and composition, and I can think of a few reasons offhand that I would personally label this medal as private:

1.) Though several official medals experimented with some very unique designs during this time period, there is still usually at least a mention of the pope's name. The bent crossed keys on the reverse with no blades showing also bug me, being a little too different (even on the squarish extraordinary medal listed as de Luca 389-391, the crossed keys maintain their usual layout).

2.) The composition of gold-plated pewter seems quite odd to me for an official medal of this time, which would normally be issued in a subset of gold, silver, and bronze.

3.) Since an official medal (the "annuale") was issued for this topic, a second official medal of a different design seems odd.

4.) The gold-plated pewter combined with the overall "ancient" style which makes it look old just smacks of a commercial product for sale to tourists.

5.) Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, though de Luca might have missed a medal or two, his research seems quite solid into what the official medals are. Though de Luca notes that he "eliminated ... all those coined with the purpose of distributing them to the pilgrims, various state authorities, students, police, religious bodies, institutes, etc. even though they were official," this medal would not seem to fit into that category. Indeed, it should be most definitely a commemorative medal which was created to "solemnize particular historical happenings," and under this assumption would have been included in de Luca's work had it been official.

Of course, this could all be wrong, but these are my personal feelings. That being said, it is one of the more interesting designs for a papal medal, and the obverse does seem rather well-executed.

As an aside, what Calò reference are you using? I have "Avviamento allo Studio delle Medaglie Papali: le Medaglie Papali da Leone XIII (1878) a Paolo VI (1968)", where this medal is listed as number 32 in the Paul VI section.

STLNATS

I agree with your analysis Joe, but for some reason thought that I'd run across it in another reference which suggested otherwise. I can't seem to find the ref, so may have been mistaken. Still an interesting piece.

I didn't realize that there was another ed of Calo. Mine is Le Medaglie del Vaticano, 1929-1972, published in 1973. Very large, folio + size book.

BXBOY143

thanx again for all the info you are all amazing with the knowledge you have thanx so very much

best regards

-Paul