Quite interesting, but if any of this is news to anyone, I think you've been living in the dark...and that's no reflection on PSA. I'm referring to the card doctors and shady people involved in the sports memorabilia business as a whole.
If the Feds want to do some more digging, they can go pick up the guy in North Carolina. A lot of online evidence, as well as sub records from PSA and BGS to show he likes the trimming game. I hear he can make some pretty good fake patch cards, too.
All I can say it's about time & I hope they really investigate this hobby fully & hopefully indict & prosecute All of swine that are ripping off our hobby & hand out severe prison terms, massive fines & ban these lowlifes from the hobby permanently The Greed in this hobby is so pervasive & little is being said about it & yet it is known through out the hobby by all top dealer/collectors Just no one want's to kill the Golden Goose If all the scammers in our hobby are revealed, The industry will be missing A Lot of Big Dealers & collectors & maybe even one major grading service Who will be residing in Prison hopefully, where they really belong I hope this investigation goes far & deep, Not just going after a few of the key scammers It's time to clean up the Industry/Hobby
my gut tells me nothing comes from this but a few penalty's and some written guidelines on business practices as to what is illegal and legal. if WIWAG can flat out cause fraud and get away with it with a slap on the wrist , how can any practice in the gray area put someone in jail?
If the hobby was serious about eliminating fraud and doctoring of cards, they would form a group to oversee and regulate the grading industry. (Of course the government could do the same thing too, but I don't like big government.) Right now it's basically "just trust us to grade your cards accurately and to be honest with big dealer cards too". There's just too much money involved not to attract corruption - at all levels.
Maybe there should be a group of collectors that form the oversite group. All complaints could go to them and they could have the power to internally investigate the grading companies and dealers involved. All complaints could be made public on a web site so that we would all know what issues are being raised and who has the most complaints against them.
All we know from the second article is that one anonymous person claims he saw FBI investigators talking to people at the PSA booth and that they interviewed a former Mastro employee who according to O'Keefe admits to being a card doctor.
It's impossible to determine who's being investigated and for what just based on that, and the rest of the article is pure speculation.
And how does the FBI interviewing one card doctor constitute them "swarming on card sharks" as the title suggests?
I hope a reputable source addresses this so we can find out what exactly is going on.
I wonder how I can get in touch with the investigators. I'd love to talk to the USPS postal inspectors about a certain card doctor from South Carolina.
Wasn't one of the slime balls a attorney? Sure helps to know the Law if your a crook Sure worked for him n his slime ball partner in crime to avoid jail-time Saudi Arabia has it right Steal & lose your right hand Steal again & they lop off the remaining hand It works there & It will work here as well
<< <i>CLCT should have their lawyers carefully review O'KEEFFE's hit piece >>
/////////
For what?
Everything in the piece is factually accurate and properly attributed/quoted. >>
FIB asked
/////////// //////////
Little is either "factually accurate" or "properly attributed."
BOTH pieces are wriiten by self-interested "authors," who have a vested interest in flogging their OWN book. REAL newspapers do not allow book-sellers to "report" on events that harm/help sales or credibility of their own books.
As a VERY experienced defamation-artist and spin-doctor, I know carp when I see it.
Some examples of NONSENSE: (or, as FIB calls it, "factually accurate and properly attributed.")
////////////////
"They spent a lot of time at the PSA booth," one sports memorabilia executive said.
////////////
The target of the investigation appears to be Illinois-based Mastro Auctions, sports memorabilia's largest auction house, although other businesses and individuals may also be involved.
//////////////////////
"But (Mastro president Doug Allen) looked awful," the executive added. "I think all this is getting to him."
////////////////
The fact that PSA officials and the former Mastro employee were interviewed by agents indicates that investigators are also interested in learning about "card doctoring."
///////////////
Collectors and dealers say PSA inflates grades for cards submitted by big-volume customers such as Mastro Auctions.
////////////
..according to "The Card," a book by two Daily News reporters. (the "news reporters.")
////////////////
even though a former PSA authenticator has said the company knew the card had been doctored.
////////////
"This is part of an active federal investigation," said a source familiar with the probe. "I think ........" (Neither the FBI nor ANY other Federal agency "comments" on "whether or NOT ANY investigation is underway)
///////////
...said he was victimized several times by one-time friend Bill Mastro, Mastro Auctions chairman. Those allegations first appeared in "The Card," a book about the T206 Wagner by two Daily News reporters that was published last year.
/////////////
...even though one of the original authenticators acknowledged the company knew the card had been altered,
////////////// //////////// ///////////
Read "The Card:......." LOTS of drama, excitement, AND speculation. It's just like the hatchett job O'Keefe and his fellow "book writer" did on PSA yesterday.
So, please do not try to convince anybody with any sense that the hit pieces are "factually accurate" and "properly attributed."
I've been trashing/saving people/companies for three-decades, and I know how the game is played.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
How closely do you think guys like Spence and Fogel are watching this? Do you think they sweat this stuff? I mean they're worth millions anyway but if you thought your collection that you have millions sunk into was in any kind of jeopardy, in terms of authenticity being questioned, wouldn't you be paying close attention?
By the way - count me as one who thinks any PSA role in this investigation will be none or minimal, but I'd be making a few calls if I had that much money sunk into the hobby. I may have 8-10K in PSA cards so it wouldn't hurt me drastically, but I bet it would really hurt some people if serious questions were raised.
By the way - count me as one who thinks any PSA role in this investigation will be none or minimal, but I'd be making a few calls if I had that much money sunk into the hobby. I may have 8-10K in PSA cards so it wouldn't hurt me drastically, but I bet it would really hurt some people if serious questions were raised.
I don't know about the Fogel's, but if there were a major bust and graded cards were subsequently devalued, some of the biggest losers would be the dealers who have inventoried a lot of high dollar cards. I'd feel really bad for some of those guys. They'd lose their livelihood and a major investment.
I was thinking about how they could convict someone for selling altered graded sportscards. When you think about it, it does open up a huge can of worms, including the subjectivity in determining that a card was altered. Especially since getting a conviction requires convincing a jury that the grading companies couldn't detect the alteration - now you have to find an authority who can say with certainty that the card was altered. The first step in getting a criminal conviction is proving that a crime was committed; then you have to prove who did it. I think the easiest way would be if they got a hired card doctor to rat out the dealers he's done the work for, but they'd still have to establish that the cards they had doctored were later sold without disclosure. A dealer could always say, "Oh, yeah, I sold that Dimaggio to some guy at a show; I told him it was restored." Then no crime was committed.
Personally, I think this aspect of our "hobby" would be too much of a headache for federal prosecutors, and they'll stick with the easier stuff, like counterfeit memorabilia and shill bidding. I'm not saying they couldn't build a case and get a conviction, but I think it would be difficult. (I realize there's the cases where a serial numbered card is resold sans a foot, but I think they would focus more on the high dollar vintage stuff if they did anything).
Comments
Collecting Tony Perez PSA and Rookie Baseball PSA
My Podcast - Now FEATURED on iTunes
CLCT should have their lawyers carefully review O'KEEFFE's hit piece.
Did someone say 1919??
I hope they really investigate this hobby fully &
hopefully indict & prosecute All of swine that are ripping off our hobby &
hand out severe prison terms, massive fines & ban these lowlifes from the hobby permanently
The Greed in this hobby is so pervasive & little is being said about it & yet it is known through out the hobby by all top dealer/collectors
Just no one want's to kill the Golden Goose
If all the scammers in our hobby are revealed,
The industry will be missing A Lot of Big Dealers & collectors & maybe even one major grading service
Who will be residing in Prison hopefully, where they really belong
I hope this investigation goes far & deep,
Not just going after a few of the key scammers
It's time to clean up the Industry/Hobby
<< <i>if WIWAG can flat out cause fraud and get away with it with a slap on the wrist , how can any practice in the gray area put someone in jail? >>
What is gray and what has been learned from the WIWAG case? Whatever happened here might not be gray anymore because of WIWAG.
Maybe there should be a group of collectors that form the oversite group.
Just thinking out loud...
<< <i>CLCT should have their lawyers carefully review O'KEEFFE's hit piece >>
For what?
Everything in the piece is factually accurate and properly attributed/quoted.
It's impossible to determine who's being investigated and for what just based on that, and the rest of the article is pure speculation.
And how does the FBI interviewing one card doctor constitute them "swarming on card sharks" as the title suggests?
I hope a reputable source addresses this so we can find out what exactly is going on.
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
Define 'lots of money.'
WIWAG made what seemed like a killing to me and never spent a day in jail.
Sure helps to know the Law if your a crook
Sure worked for him n his slime ball partner in crime to avoid jail-time
Saudi Arabia has it right
Steal & lose your right hand
Steal again & they lop off the remaining hand
It works there &
It will work here as well
<< <i>I heard the focus of the investigation was getting my Ted Williams pack sent to me. >>
his severed head just chuckled.
if only we had that law for sex offenders....
<< <i>
<< <i>CLCT should have their lawyers carefully review O'KEEFFE's hit piece >>
/////////
For what?
Everything in the piece is factually accurate and properly attributed/quoted. >>
FIB asked
///////////
//////////
Little is either "factually accurate" or "properly attributed."
BOTH pieces are wriiten by self-interested "authors," who have a
vested interest in flogging their OWN book. REAL newspapers do
not allow book-sellers to "report" on events that harm/help sales
or credibility of their own books.
As a VERY experienced defamation-artist and spin-doctor, I know carp
when I see it.
Some examples of NONSENSE: (or, as FIB calls it, "factually accurate and properly attributed.")
////////////////
"They spent a lot of time at the PSA booth," one sports memorabilia executive said.
////////////
The target of the investigation appears to be Illinois-based Mastro Auctions, sports
memorabilia's largest auction house, although other businesses and individuals may
also be involved.
//////////////////////
"But (Mastro president Doug Allen) looked awful," the executive added. "I think all this is getting to him."
////////////////
The fact that PSA officials and the former Mastro employee were interviewed by agents indicates
that investigators are also interested in learning about "card doctoring."
///////////////
Collectors and dealers say PSA inflates grades for cards submitted by big-volume customers such as Mastro Auctions.
////////////
..according to "The Card," a book by two Daily News reporters. (the "news reporters.")
////////////////
even though a former PSA authenticator has said the company knew the card had been doctored.
////////////
"This is part of an active federal investigation," said a source familiar with the probe. "I think ........"
(Neither the FBI nor ANY other Federal agency "comments" on "whether or NOT ANY investigation
is underway)
///////////
...said he was victimized several times by one-time friend Bill Mastro, Mastro Auctions chairman.
Those allegations first appeared in "The Card," a book about the T206 Wagner by two Daily News reporters that was published last year.
/////////////
...even though one of the original authenticators acknowledged the company knew the card had been altered,
//////////////
////////////
///////////
Read "The Card:......." LOTS of drama, excitement, AND speculation. It's just like the hatchett job
O'Keefe and his fellow "book writer" did on PSA yesterday.
So, please do not try to convince anybody with any sense that the hit pieces are "factually
accurate" and "properly attributed."
I've been trashing/saving people/companies for three-decades, and I know how the game is played.
Hall of Famers from all 4 sports
<< <i>As a VERY experienced defamation-artist and spin-doctor, I know carp
when I see it.
>>
Karl Rove is that you?
I guess they thought O.J was gonna be there
<< <i>I guess they thought O.J was gonna be there
No, he's on a golf course in Florida, looking for the "real killers".
By the way - count me as one who thinks any PSA role in this investigation will be none or minimal, but I'd be making a few calls if I had that much money sunk into the hobby. I may have 8-10K in PSA cards so it wouldn't hurt me drastically, but I bet it would really hurt some people if serious questions were raised.
My Podcast - Now FEATURED on iTunes
I don't know about the Fogel's, but if there were a major bust and graded cards were subsequently devalued, some of the biggest losers would be the dealers who have inventoried a lot of high dollar cards. I'd feel really bad for some of those guys. They'd lose their livelihood and a major investment.
I was thinking about how they could convict someone for selling altered graded sportscards. When you think about it, it does open up a huge can of worms, including the subjectivity in determining that a card was altered. Especially since getting a conviction requires convincing a jury that the grading companies couldn't detect the alteration - now you have to find an authority who can say with certainty that the card was altered. The first step in getting a criminal conviction is proving that a crime was committed; then you have to prove who did it. I think the easiest way would be if they got a hired card doctor to rat out the dealers he's done the work for, but they'd still have to establish that the cards they had doctored were later sold without disclosure. A dealer could always say, "Oh, yeah, I sold that Dimaggio to some guy at a show; I told him it was restored." Then no crime was committed.
Personally, I think this aspect of our "hobby" would be too much of a headache for federal prosecutors, and they'll stick with the easier stuff, like counterfeit memorabilia and shill bidding. I'm not saying they couldn't build a case and get a conviction, but I think it would be difficult. (I realize there's the cases where a serial numbered card is resold sans a foot, but I think they would focus more on the high dollar vintage stuff if they did anything).