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Reports from the National
Galveston
Posts: 273 ✭
Seemed like the opening night crowd was much bigger than usual. As I recall, the VIP badges used to be the only way to get in for the opening, evening, session but this year it merely got you in thirty minutes early. Still, the VIP crowd seemed much bigger than in years past.
Lots and lots of cards as always. Graded and ungraded. And a surprising amount of raw, gradeable, vintage cards.
Two things I was looking for and didn't see: 1961 Golden Press in PSA 8 (did not see a single graded golden press card), 1970 Topps Supers in PSA 9 (Saw one and it was 2 to 3 times market price). Did buy some unopened 1971 Kelloggs and opened them.
Seemed like there was a lot of Turkey Red's for some reason. Brett Favre stuff seemed to be priced down 10-20 percent. Friend of mine is looking for a Red Heart Duke Snider in PSA 8 and has not found one yet. We only made it to about 40% of the room. Will tackle it again this morning...
Lots and lots of cards as always. Graded and ungraded. And a surprising amount of raw, gradeable, vintage cards.
Two things I was looking for and didn't see: 1961 Golden Press in PSA 8 (did not see a single graded golden press card), 1970 Topps Supers in PSA 9 (Saw one and it was 2 to 3 times market price). Did buy some unopened 1971 Kelloggs and opened them.
Seemed like there was a lot of Turkey Red's for some reason. Brett Favre stuff seemed to be priced down 10-20 percent. Friend of mine is looking for a Red Heart Duke Snider in PSA 8 and has not found one yet. We only made it to about 40% of the room. Will tackle it again this morning...
Strong buyer of 1970 Kelloggs Football & 1971 Kelloggs Baseball and Football. Please help me find cards!
I have a few hundred extra PSA graded 1971 Kellogg's cards. E-mail for price list. Looking for 1970 Topps Supers in PSA 9 too.
I have a few hundred extra PSA graded 1971 Kellogg's cards. E-mail for price list. Looking for 1970 Topps Supers in PSA 9 too.
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Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
I have a few hundred extra PSA graded 1971 Kellogg's cards. E-mail for price list. Looking for 1970 Topps Supers in PSA 9 too.
My friend found a Snider Red Heart in PSA 7.5 and bought it. It looks like an 8 to me.
Also, I found one Golden Press PSA 8 that I needed, a Cy Young.
Hardly any 1971 Kelloggs to be found. Not finding any Topps Supers in PSA 9 either.
I have a few hundred extra PSA graded 1971 Kellogg's cards. E-mail for price list. Looking for 1970 Topps Supers in PSA 9 too.
Overall, it seems to be a pretty good show. I did see a good amount of non sports cards too.
One thing I noticed is that some dealers are asking SMR+ money for raw cards. Most of those wouldn't come close to the grade that would even warrant that SMR price.
There were more dealers there than 2 years ago.
There was more foot traffic on Thusday, even in a down economy.
There was less junk IMHO. Fewer dealers with 80's commons and beanie babies.
Ferom what i saw, moe dealers are pricing their stock closer to online prices. A few are still 2-3x VCP, but most were 10-20% higher. At least for the stuff I looked at.
Dealers were aggressively buying, but no one had much they were willing to sell.
Joe
This year the major awards were handed out instead of every single set award, so they took all of 10 minutes. Don Spence had an armload of them.
There was also some talk of removing values in SMR for cards that don't exist- eg. theoretical values for a card in PSA 8 when no card has ever graded that high. A show of hands showed about 80% of the large audience was in strong favor of that.
It was great meeting new friends and seeing old ones, and a big thanks to Joe, Cosetta, Mary and Michelle for a very well produced event.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Don't waste your time and fees listing on ebay before getting in touch me by PM or at gregmo32@aol.com !
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
<< <i>I really like the idea of removing the "hypothetical" prices. Seems like the guide should be a reflection of sales, not guesses. >>
SMR, reality...
<< <i>Well, if dealers are aggressively buying I will be there tomorrow with cards to sell. >>
What will they be using SMR, VCP, VCP X???
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>I really like the idea of removing the "hypothetical" prices. Seems like the guide should be a reflection of sales, not guesses. >>
even more usefull would be to remove high end grades and replacing them with PSA 1-3..for instance, the 1914 Cracker Jacks, no 9's exist and only a handful of 8's exist, so why not remove them from the SMR and add Psa 3 and PSA 2's, that woould be much more useful since that is where the majority are found...similarly, the E90-1 AmericanCaramel, remove the 9 and 8 (none exist) and replace with PSA 2 and 3
Federal investigators crashed the National Sports Collectors Convention in Rosemont, Ill., on Thursday and Friday, delivering subpoenas to several hobby executives to appear before a grand jury that is hearing evidence about fraud in their industry.
Agents from the FBI and United States Postal Service also questioned other dealers and authenticators at the National, the hobby's largest annual memorabilia show.
"This is part of an active federal investigation," said a source familiar with the probe. "I think they came to the National because they knew everybody would be here, all under one roof. It's like shooting ducks in a barrel."
As the Daily News first reported in July 2007, the Chicago division of the FBI, whose "Operation Foul Ball" smashed a multi-state autograph forgery ring during the 1990s, last year initiated an investigation into Illinois-based Mastro Auctions, sports memorabilia's largest auction house.
"The FBI has been walking the convention floor," said American Memorabilia president Victor Moreno. "You can feel the tension."
The visits from federal agents came as Mastro Auctions officials were preparing for the big live auction the company conducts in conjunction with the National.
"No more business as usual," said Chicago collector Michael Gidwitz, who was interviewed by the FBI several months ago. "An unregulated business like this, it brings in a lot of unscrupulous people. This needed to be done a long time ago."
Plenty more, read on...
<< <i>There was more foot traffic on Thusday >>
FBI Agents
<< <i>
<< <i>I really like the idea of removing the "hypothetical" prices. Seems like the guide should be a reflection of sales, not guesses. >>
even more usefull would be to remove high end grades and replacing them with PSA 1-3..for instance, the 1914 Cracker Jacks, no 9's exist and only a handful of 8's exist, so why not remove them from the SMR and add Psa 3 and PSA 2's, that woould be much more useful since that is where the majority are found...similarly, the E90-1 AmericanCaramel, remove the 9 and 8 (none exist) and replace with PSA 2 and 3 >>
I think some prices are used as a "show factor". Even though they don't exist, its gives the cards more weight and appeal. Like 1914 Cracker Jack PSA 8's....sort of a theoretical "allure" if that makes sense.
Just listing 1 and 2 prices wouldn't be as sexy.
Maybe that's why there's so many theoretical prices, I dont know.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
This is my 6th or 7th national and for the 1st time in many years I went to enjoy myself and not try selling my cards because the family was in a financial situation. I walked the whole floor and saw some great items. For some reason seeing Charlie Sheen's White Sox uniform he wore in the movie 8 Men Out was pretty interesting to me. Maybe I have been jaded by being in this hobby way to long but seeing another Wagner or numerous Ty Cobb autographs no longer interest me. Its the off beat and unusual items that one does not see in auction catalogs and online that really catch my attention.
I am a autograoh collector but I will be damned if I will pay 150.00 (or whatever it was) for a Jerome Bettis autograph. I can buy a pack pulled auto for 20 bucks so why will I shell out a huge some of money just so I can shake the Busses hand and say I did it. I never understood why people pay that kind of money for in person autos when pack pulled certified examples are available at a fraction of the cost. I dont look down on anyone who does it but I have heard to many horror stories about athletes who will not even look at you when the sign so throwing this kind of money away does not make sense.
One of the things I have started doing is working on some older sets that I had as a kid. Early to mid 70's is the years that I have been working hard to find nice raw examples of and what I found that many cards for these years were over priced for their conditions. I was thrilled to find a dealer from Plainwood New York who had some great early 70's commons for sale at a very reasonable price. I sat for a hour and pulled out some commons I needed and will definitly give him more business via mail order. He wasnt overpriced and he was actually a great guy to talk to as I pulled my commons and checked them off of my want list. This is what the national should be all about.....not what the Feds are doing or what other legal troubles there are.
Overall I had a great time. I didnt spend alot of money and sold a few cards to make my trip to the show a break even proposition. I talked to many of the dealers I hear about on the boards here and even bought a box of cards from Steve at he Baseball card exchange. I even got a better deal than what I thought I would get after looking at his website. I missed my chance to bait Mr Mint into begging me to see what I was carrying in my bag as he was a no show for this national and apparently for the rest of them as well. Overall had a great time at the show but a few questions were thought of after I left like where was Topps and if they are a leader in the hobby why did they not have a booth at this years show.
Lets hear some other stories from the national.
1. Got to my hotel at 1:30 am due to having to attend a retirement dinner on short notice. With all the rain in Chicago on Thurs. the Doubletree was overbooked due to all the people not flying out of O'hare (law says they can't turn out anyone willing to pay for another night). Was sent to another hotel in Deerfield and didn't get into that room until 2:30 am.
2. Positive side is my rooms were comped.
3. My bonus that was supposed to be deposited on Friday was not due to a computer error so I had to extremely cut down the list of cards and autos I was going after. But hey I got my bonus today so I guess it saved me from overspending at the National.
4. I did not find my white whale. PSA 8 1956 Clemente. One was there for 1100 (overpriced) but was diamond cut something awful.
5. I did not find a Stargell RC in any grade higher than a PSA 7.
6. I had 2 dealers out of the whole show ask to see what was in my box and if I was selling. I did not get the impression that they were buying strong. I did see pricing as a whole alot more reasonable than in the past, Marya (whom I love) excluded.
7. Feds made a huge impression and had dealers talking amongst themselves alot of the show. '
8. Someone was passing bogus Goudey Ruths in compromised PSA holders at the show and ran out of the show when confronted.
9. Grades were brutal at PSA but saw a guy get a PSA 9 on a 64 Rose.
10. Also saw a guy that bought some Koufax 8X10 autos for $40 come back fake (you think?) and was amazed they werent real.
11. Was able to make some nice pickups despite the lack of funding. My haul was
1957 PSA 8 Hank Aaron- very nice scan to come.
1994 Upperdeck Mantle autograph, has griffey on the card as well.
21 different PSA graded football cards I needed for my set all PSA 7 or above. Moved my set from 36% to 47% complete.
1961 Topps Mantle WS Card PSA 8
1953 Topps Kiner PSA 7- truly stunning card, scan to come.
1953 Topps Kiner PSA 6- shocking color, 1/8" back wrinkle doomed it.
12. On my way home I was rear ended in a 3 car crash on I-90 and my car was undriveable. I waited forever for wrecker before I ended up calling relatives. I got home on Saturday at 3am and towed it home myself on Sunday. It was a taxi cab that got me, I was listed as #3 on the report as I was stopped when it happened. 2 tow truck drivers almost got into a fight over wanting to tow me. Now I have to get a rental for 2 to 3 weeks. Head and neck still hurt. No cards were injured in the wreck however.
I did run into Lawrence Taylor at the Doubletree waiting for my vehicle to be pulled up. He came in a stretch hummer limo. He said hello.
is Mr Mint quitting the hobby?
Mike
The one thing I had a hard time finding was graded 1948 Leaf Football and the little I found was way overpriced (even more so than mine!!!).
Managed to pick up a couple of Chicles (Hinkle and Battles) for my HOF set as well as a bunch of raw cards in NM-MT or better for the HOF and Future HOF set (Guy, Ham, Harris, Nobis, Hanburger, Hayes, DeLamielleure, Wilcox, and Olsen). Need to add them to the PSA pile.
Also had some nice success with grading and reviews. Managed some decent grades on the 4 '48 Leafs (2 PSA 6's and 2 PSA 7's) I submitted onsite and had both PSA 8 crackouts come back PSA 9's (sorry Josh). Got a full grade "registry" bump on my '48 Leaf Bednarik review (from a PSA 5 to a PSA 8 OC, so maybe asking $1250 wasn't so crazy, eh Joe?), but missed out on bumping my Campbell RC from a 9 to a 10...
Also bought a couple of 1977 Topps Mexican 3 card panels as I had never seen them in PSA holders before. May need to purchase a couple more of those as they go nicely with my sets.
Not a lot of attendees selling much of value. Managed to make some buys for the consignment group I'm working with, but not too much came to the table that was worthwhile.
The classic of the show was the guy who asked if we were buying Jordan rookies and then produced 5 of the worst counterfeits I'd ever seen as I could see them before he even passed them across the showcase.
When I politely passed on the cards saying, "Sorry, I'm not interested," he asked, "Why?"
And I politely replied again, "Sorry, we're just not interested." He got a little obnoxious and demand to know why I didn't want to buy them since I said we were buying Jordan rookies.
Since he was being a little bit of a jerk, I figured I'd be honest and said, "We are buying Jordan rookies, but only REAL ones. Have a nice day." He told me I was a rectal orafice (just not that tactfully) and added a few other choice words as he walked away.
All-in-all, it was a great show until the wall was hit around Noon on Saturday. Sales slowed to a crawl and about 15% of the dealers began packing up to leave. By 2:00 Sunday, more than half the tables were closed up and packing and traffic came to almost a complete halt.
My only suggestion for future Nationals would be to find a way to work with the unions and have Friday be a late night. Perhaps open the doors at Noon and close them at 9:00PM. I think this would greatly increase the Friday foot traffic and would not make for too long of a day for the dealers. Wednesday is a bear finishing set up and then staying through VIP and Preview.
It was great meeting many ofrom the boards and that I've done business with (Joe, Josh, Jason, Andy, satts, and a few others). Looking forward to seeing you guys again in Cleveland!
<< <i>Great show ,great city,good deals,cool dealers except for the tool at the Just collect booth. >>
What happened at the Just collect booth?
<< <i>Auto pricing at these shows is just getting retarded. I walked to 3 tables and found Tristar/PSA-DNA Franco Harris minis from the last show he attended for 70 bucks and he is charging 120 that day? I guess getting 5 seconds of face time is worth it to some people. Bettis's auto pricing I think is due to the fact he doesn't have alot of material out yet but it is ridiculous for a marginal HOF. Bradshaw is also silly priced.
I did run into Lawrence Taylor at the Doubletree waiting for my vehicle to be pulled up. He came in a stretch hummer limo. He said hello. >>
I completely agree w/ you on auto pricing. I did pay $200 for Namath for my GLA (which made me cringe) and paid $40 each for 3 YA Tittle autographs and $60 for a Dick Kazmaier autographs.
The pricing is ridiculous but here are futher gripes with Tristar:
1. $5 fee to pick up the tickets at will call. What's funny is that Tristar charges the $5 to mail the tickets if I wanted. So, essentially I'm paying for shipping whether or not I have the tickets mailed to me. Makes sense.
2. Photo opportuntity. Another great service offered by Tristar. For the price of the autograph typically, you can go back stage and have your picture taken with the athlete. Then in addition, you can pay for an autograph if you so choose... Nice.
3. All access VIP passes. This perk allows you to cut in line in front of everyone else who bought a regular ticket. In the past, I would always be one of the first people to buy autograph tickets to get a low number and be one of the first in line. Now w/ the All Access VIPs, the regular ticket holders have to wait up to an hour to start lining up. I had ticket #11 for Joe Namath and had to wait nearly 45 minutes to get in line.
4. What's with all the restrictions on items that players will sign and/or inscripions? Joe Greene won't sign "Mean Joe", Art Monk won't sign his rookie card, Joe Namath won't sign inscriptions (HOF, Super Bowl MVP, nothing...), Lou Holtz won't sign anything already signed by Ara Parseghian...ect... The bottom of the autograh price list sheet looked like a legal contract w/ all the clarifications and exclusions....geez.
I get most of my autographs through the mail and the prices are typically much cheaper than at shows. The problem w/ certain players like Namath, Tittle and Kazmaier is that they don't sign through the mail so your only choice is to get the items signed in person or buy already signed items (which is fine w/ me as long as I can find the particular item that I want signed).
It was great to meet all 3 former players in person, however I agree that it's not worth the premium if you have any other options of obtaining the autograph for a cheaper price.
Rgs,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
......if a player is signing from 3-5PM.........you show up at 4:30
1955 Bowman Raw complete with 90% Ex-NR or better
Now seeking 1949 Eureka Sportstamps...NM condition
Working on '78 Autographed set now 99.9% complete -
Working on '89 Topps autoed set now complete
<< <i>The classic of the show was the guy who asked if we were buying Jordan rookies and then produced 5 of the worst counterfeits I'd ever seen as I could see them before he even passed them across the showcase.
When I politely passed on the cards saying, "Sorry, I'm not interested," he asked, "Why?"
And I politely replied again, "Sorry, we're just not interested." He got a little obnoxious and demand to know why I didn't want to buy them since I said we were buying Jordan rookies.
Since he was being a little bit of a jerk, I figured I'd be honest and said, "We are buying Jordan rookies, but only REAL ones. Have a nice day." He told me I was a rectal orafice (just not that tactfully) and added a few other choice words as he walked away. >>
Why be a jerk to the guy in the first place? Why not just politely explain that he had counterfeits instead of saying "we're not interested"? Seems to me you were out of line first.
Tabe
<< <i>
<< <i>The classic of the show was the guy who asked if we were buying Jordan rookies and then produced 5 of the worst counterfeits I'd ever seen as I could see them before he even passed them across the showcase.
When I politely passed on the cards saying, "Sorry, I'm not interested," he asked, "Why?"
And I politely replied again, "Sorry, we're just not interested." He got a little obnoxious and demand to know why I didn't want to buy them since I said we were buying Jordan rookies.
Since he was being a little bit of a jerk, I figured I'd be honest and said, "We are buying Jordan rookies, but only REAL ones. Have a nice day." He told me I was a rectal orafice (just not that tactfully) and added a few other choice words as he walked away. >>
Why be a jerk to the guy in the first place? Why not just politely explain that he had counterfeits instead of saying "we're not interested"? Seems to me you were out of line first.
Tabe >>
I respect your opinion with regard to my response, but have you ever tried to explain to someone that they have counterfeit cards when they offer them to you? I have and they can sometimes become very uncomfortable and I preferred to just pass on the cards. And tried to pass again without feeling the need to explain why.
Do you think the outcome would've been any better if I had told the guy his cards were bogus to begin with? I doubt it.
If such makes me a tool, then so be it.
Regardless if the seller new the Jordans were fake or not, he should have just left when otwcards passed on the items.
Fortunately otw knows the difference.
My friend owns a comic store. He used to buy cards from walk-ins but stopped when one batch he bought contained some re-colored cards. After that he asked me to check out any card deals that came into the store. He passes on all the overproduced material, but anything of value (vintage, hi priced Rc's) he waits till I look at the material before offering a price. Every deal he was offered was bogus. Fake Jordans, re-colored W. Moon Rc's and 71 Topps baseball, trimmed Jeter Rc's, even patch cards that were so poorly done that the threads were sticking out of the patch window.
<< <i>I get the impression that the seller of the cards was either already rejected a few times from other dealers, or knew the cards were counterfeit and was getting frustrated that he couldn't pawn them off. >>
Exactly! At a small show or a mall show, I'd take the time as it is quite probable that the seller does not know. But a show of this size and magnitude, I'm pretty certain that the seller knew what he had or at least had already been told.
Confrontation at a show is a pain. You never know what they person on the other side of the table is thinking. While it may appear to be smartass-ish to pass without explaining why, it is often just as wise as to avoid creating an issue. There's no real easy way about it, but if the seller had been like most people and accepted that we weren't interested (after saying it TWICE), nothing would've happened and it would've been moot.
However, some here love to find some way to stir something up out of nothing realizing that hind sight is 20/20 (almost).
Scott (otwcards) should be able to just reject someone and doesn't owe them any explanation. If the guy doesn't take it well and demands an answer then I think Scott's answer is just fine. Maybe he needed some tough love or maybe he knew they were fake either way he could have walked away from the table after being told 2 times they weren't interested.
When I am rejected, I always say thanks for your time because I may be needing to sell them something later on and why burn bridges. Most of the people walking around with handfuls of Jordan RCs and beat up 50s commons are looking to cash in and when their dreams of fortune comes crashing down they get pissed.